AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriander

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floydmeddler
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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:01 pm

Spud395 wrote:
floydmeddler wrote:
Spud395 wrote:I'll second "Radical Brewing", I allways somehow asumed some of your inspiration came from there Floyd, you'd enjoy it for sure :)

Looking like another nice one, got something similar on the go at the minute with a combination of orange/lime zest, corriander, black pepper and bobek :)
oh and fermented with wlp550
Ooooooh. That does sound good Spud. I've used Grains of Paradise in my Belgians in the past. Has amazing 'black pepper' notes.

I did this brew a while back. Prob the most radical I ever did. I think it may be time to revisit... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25500&hilit=+heather+ale
Ok, thats a radical brew all right =D>

Have a few other funny ideas myself, I'll publish if they ever make it to the FV :lol:

I had read grains of paradise are quiet peppery allright. I also made a Porter 18 months or so ago with loads of black pepper, it worked out very well but took a while to mellow out, so drastic reduction in this pale brew, just a hint is all I want.
Black pepper in a stout sounds like a great idea! Make sure you do a brewday post on it Spud. Be great to follow that one. :wink:

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:22 pm

8 days in and this seems to have stopped fermenting at 1014. Been the same for a few days now. I'm really happy about this as now, when I add the honey, the final beer won't finish up with a low gravity - hopefully!

I use Rowse honey and 450g will add 6 points to this current gravity - so it is sitting at 1014 at the min and will become 1020 when I add it. The beer usually finishes off at 4 points below gravity before honey was added, which was 1014 - so I predict this beer to finish up at 1010.

Seems to good to be true though. I prob have a stuck ferment and this could all turn into a total nightmare with me having to create new WLP002 starters from slant. Fingers crossed! :shock:

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by subfaction » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:25 pm

Good luck, I'm keen to hear how this goes, you have convinced me my next brew will have honey!

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:39 pm

subfaction wrote:Good luck, I'm keen to hear how this goes, you have convinced me my next brew will have honey!
Excellent! I love a good honey beer. Go for a good honey though if you want good results. Tried sainsbury's own brand in the past and it was disappointing. Highly recommend Rowse. :wink:

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:46 am

Right... This is sitting at 1014. Expected the honey to have been fermented out by now - after all, I added it to primary. I usually add to secondary.

Have given it a good rousing and will do so several times a day for a week. If that fails, I'll have to build up a new starter from slant. Surprised that this yeast is playing up. After all, I built it up from a slant. :-(

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:01 am

On second thoughts... Maybe this beer is as it should be. Have been doing a bit of research and it seems that it is a low attenuator! http://jimshomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 15&start=0

Excellent. If it ends at around the 1010 - 1012 mark, I'll be a very happy boy.

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by Spud395 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:38 pm

The inital ferment finished at 1014 after the honey addition it's gone back to 1014, doesnt that mean the honey has all fermented out?

The addition of simpler sugars shouldnt drop the FG anymore than it was allready, from what I've read.
I've seen others say it will drop lower witht the addition of sugars, but from my research and logically I cant see how this would be the case.
I'd say she done :)

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:33 pm

Hey Spud. Sugar ferments 100% so thins the beer out - this is why it's used so much in Belgians. Honey isn't 100% fermentable but not far off - I think! In all my experience so far (admittedly only with S04 and WLP005) honey has pulled the gravity down. I'm tempted to take another gravity read now but promised myself I'd wait till Thursday... Airlock still ever so gently bubbling every 8 seconds or so - so something is happening in there. Not too much I hope!

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:13 pm

Took another reading. Used my refractometer - Sitting at 1015. This has to be a stuck ferment...

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:31 pm

Went to set up my aquarium heater and realised it was broken. Damn. In the past, heat has usually helped chug things along. Put a tube heater in the fermentation cupboard instead.

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by stevetk189 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:50 pm

I'm keeping my beady eye on this thread with interest. Our neighbour keeps bees and has a plentiful supply of superb local flowers honey, he's been rattling on at me (well at least I think that's what he's been saying) to brew a beer with it but I've been waiting to find the recipe. Hope it turns out as well as it sounds like it should do.
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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by Spud395 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:22 pm

floydmeddler wrote:Hey Spud. Sugar ferments 100% so thins the beer out - this is why it's used so much in Belgians. Honey isn't 100% fermentable but not far off - I think! In all my experience so far (admittedly only with S04 and WLP005) honey has pulled the gravity down. I'm tempted to take another gravity read now but promised myself I'd wait till Thursday... Airlock still ever so gently bubbling every 8 seconds or so - so something is happening in there. Not too much I hope!
I knew I would come across wrong.
The way it was explaned to me was as follows

"Sugar doesn't "add dryness" I think the terms that are used have led to some confusion on the Internets; if you already have a beer that starts out at an OG of say 1.059 and has a theoretical FG of 1.012 adding more sugar WILL NOT help it dry out more. (This is clearly what some posters on some forums think this means.)

-If you, however replace 10 of those original gravity points with gravity points from simple sugar (remove a percentage of basemalt and replace it with simple sugar) the FG will finish lower then. -Say 1.010 just as a random theoretical number.

I've seen US homebrewer board posts where someone has brewed a HUGE OG barley wine or a medium OG Saison and they don't hit the FG that they wanted and someone recommends "pitching some sugar to dry it out" -that's kinda crazy talk. I think someone is confusing the practice of REPLACING some of the basemalt with simple sugar to dry a beer out and the idea of saving some of your sugars for later into fermentation to avoid osmotic shock on yeast which will help them continue to ferment a SUPER high ABV down more than it would be able to other wise with this practice of just adding some sugar to coax fermentation along and result in a lower FG.

Adding more points of sugar obviously isn't going to help the problem of an already too sweet beer."

He went on to say

"I'll summarize the internet myth on sugar "drying out a beer" like this:

"Feeding yeast simple sugars super-charges them in a similar way that it makes little kids hyper and causes the yeast to eat more of the residual sugars left in the beer, resulting in a dryer beer. If you have a beer with too high of an FG; just feed your beer some sugar. -It's like "Red Bull for yeast!"

This idea is most certainly a myth and is not true at all.
REPLACING some of the sugar in your wort that is derived from malt with sugar that is derived from simple sugars will result in a dryer finish; that's true.

Some SUPER high gravity brewers keep aside part of the sugars in their recipe and feed them to the beer throughout fermentation to coax them into continuing to ferment longer. -That true but is an edge case and it is a regime that was originally designed for a particularly crazy yeast strain US-099 (which tastes like crap and you shouldn't use, by-the-way). -It's also NOT "adding more sugar to super charge the yeast"; it's not adding more sugar at all; it's just saving some of the sugar for later in the fermentation process."

I've brewer I stole these quotes from is very educated in the art

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:27 pm

Realised I entered the refractometer data wrong - was only considering the gravity level before honey when calculating. Got out the hydrometer instead and this beer is sitting at 1010 now. Excellent.
stevetk189 wrote:I'm keeping my beady eye on this thread with interest. Our neighbour keeps bees and has a plentiful supply of superb local flowers honey, he's been rattling on at me (well at least I think that's what he's been saying) to brew a beer with it but I've been waiting to find the recipe. Hope it turns out as well as it sounds like it should do.
If someone was offering me honey from their own hives, I'd take their hand off! I'm drinking the contents of the hydrometer jar now and this is tasting divine already. The honey and orange zest are really coming through. Bobek hops really compliment the orange zest. I'm getting married in July and am brewing 3 different ales for it. This one is defs going to be one of them. :-)

I'm going to rack to secondary with gelatine on Friday then mini keg this beer a week later with 5g of priming sugar. Reckon I could start drinking 5 days after that. Sweet!

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Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by floydmeddler » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:43 pm

Spud395 wrote:
floydmeddler wrote:Hey Spud. Sugar ferments 100% so thins the beer out - this is why it's used so much in Belgians. Honey isn't 100% fermentable but not far off - I think! In all my experience so far (admittedly only with S04 and WLP005) honey has pulled the gravity down. I'm tempted to take another gravity read now but promised myself I'd wait till Thursday... Airlock still ever so gently bubbling every 8 seconds or so - so something is happening in there. Not too much I hope!
I knew I would come across wrong.
The way it was explaned to me was as follows

"Sugar doesn't "add dryness" I think the terms that are used have led to some confusion on the Internets; if you already have a beer that starts out at an OG of say 1.059 and has a theoretical FG of 1.012 adding more sugar WILL NOT help it dry out more. (This is clearly what some posters on some forums think this means.)

-If you, however replace 10 of those original gravity points with gravity points from simple sugar (remove a percentage of basemalt and replace it with simple sugar) the FG will finish lower then. -Say 1.010 just as a random theoretical number.

I've seen US homebrewer board posts where someone has brewed a HUGE OG barley wine or a medium OG Saison and they don't hit the FG that they wanted and someone recommends "pitching some sugar to dry it out" -that's kinda crazy talk. I think someone is confusing the practice of REPLACING some of the basemalt with simple sugar to dry a beer out and the idea of saving some of your sugars for later into fermentation to avoid osmotic shock on yeast which will help them continue to ferment a SUPER high ABV down more than it would be able to other wise with this practice of just adding some sugar to coax fermentation along and result in a lower FG.

Adding more points of sugar obviously isn't going to help the problem of an already too sweet beer."

He went on to say

"I'll summarize the internet myth on sugar "drying out a beer" like this:

"Feeding yeast simple sugars super-charges them in a similar way that it makes little kids hyper and causes the yeast to eat more of the residual sugars left in the beer, resulting in a dryer beer. If you have a beer with too high of an FG; just feed your beer some sugar. -It's like "Red Bull for yeast!"

This idea is most certainly a myth and is not true at all.
REPLACING some of the sugar in your wort that is derived from malt with sugar that is derived from simple sugars will result in a dryer finish; that's true.

Some SUPER high gravity brewers keep aside part of the sugars in their recipe and feed them to the beer throughout fermentation to coax them into continuing to ferment longer. -That true but is an edge case and it is a regime that was originally designed for a particularly crazy yeast strain US-099 (which tastes like crap and you shouldn't use, by-the-way). -It's also NOT "adding more sugar to super charge the yeast"; it's not adding more sugar at all; it's just saving some of the sugar for later in the fermentation process."

I've brewer I stole these quotes from is very educated in the art
Interesting Spud. I brewed a Belgian ages ago with no sugar. Was thick and cloying as hell. Next time I added 1kg of sugar in place of malt and the beer was drier and ended on a lower gravity. Much better!

I suppose because I add the honey later - after the malt sugars have completely fermented out, I see the 'FG' drop even lower. And actually - the beer doesn't taste drier - but I always put this down to the powerful residual sweetness from the honey. An interesting topic this.

Spud395

Re: AG#76 - Honey Zest Ale - Orange Zest and Crushed Coriand

Post by Spud395 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:13 pm

It is indeed.
I will often add a small sugar addition (4-5%) to a 4.5% session pale ale.
A lot of lads frown on sugar but I like what I get with it in this case.

Next brew up is a monster of a dark Belgian, 1st time going for a 10%+ brew and I'm planning on around 20% simple sugars.
I made up 1.5l of dark candy syrup last weekend in preparation, I'll also add some Muscavado sugar and honey for complexity

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