Maris the Munich Otter

[darkonnis]

Tried my first Biab the other day, not entirely sure how well it went as its only just finished fermenting but i guess the proof will be in the pudding. Only made just 5.5Litres or there abouts as a test run, next time round i think ill up that to bring the ABV% down and maybe reduce some of the body
1kg Maris Otter Malt
1kg Munich Malt
14g of phoenix boiled, last 15mins.

So far, ever so slightly cloudy and not too clear, very velvety but surprisingly runny. Still quite... not sure how to put it, malty perhaps but then im not sure with it being a first go what exactly it is im tasting, according to brewmate, its about 6.88% ish. Got an efficiency of 60% which i know is low, but for a first try which im fairly sure i buggered up, im happy with.
IBU 15.2
EBC 20.4
ABV 6.56% (using the hydrometer)
OG 1069
FG 1020 in one demijon and 1024 in the other

The inspiration came from going to oktoberfest in september and so it seemed rude not to dive in at the deep end and make something from munich to celebrate

[darkonnis]

Next biab, as it hasnt got a name is being labelled the chocobob. Made 8L - very dark taste of coffee, quite thick too. Could be good.
1kg Chocolate Malt
0.75kg Black malt
0.5kg Crystal Malt
58g cocoa powder
15g Phoenix boiled, last 60mins
5g Phoenix boiled, last 5mins
(90 min mash, 90 min boil)
O.G 1.053
F.G 1.013

Black as the ace of spades!, estimated ABV 5.21%, efficiency 70% (10% increase on last run, happy with that) IBU 26.6

[Beer O'Clock]

That's going to be pretty intense. I used 200g Choc instead of 200g Crystal by accident and it made a very harsh brew that was veeeery toasty. It took a couple of months to calm down enough to drink. It's still an aquired taste.

How 1Kg of Choc will taste is anybodies guess

I personally think it will be undrinkable but see how it goes, if you must.

[jimp2003]

That second recipe sounds pretty awful to me. 1kg of chocolate and 750g of black plus the half kilo of crystal in only 8l brew with no base malt...thats just wrong.

If you like it then fine but I don't think many will agree with you...unless of course you have just invented a whole new innovative style...

Good luck!

Jim

[coatesg]

I think that's gonna taste like an ashtray - did you not have any base malt at all in the Chocobob.....?

[Andy__]

Im not sure that will have enough diastatic power.

[darkonnis]

I agree entirely, even when brewing it was very bitter..... not as much as you'd think but still, bitter. I recently had one called "stockton" out of a wetherspoon up here and it was very similar, as a result i figurued id give the chocobob a go. Its a nice learning curve though which is why ive done this with BIAB and not on a bigger scale.
Personally i'm thinking theres probably a limit where it can't get much more bitter and 1kg for this amount will probably be it. It looks like it may be so bitter the yeast doesn't even like it though so i'll just have to see.

I had debated buying a "recipe" kit which needed no additions, or alternatively making something in line with a recipe but that'll come when i get an AG rig set up and will actually care about the finished product being drinkable, for now as i say, its about learning.
Not sure whats next up, havent decided. In fairness ill probably do one that is definitely drinkable for the next one. I am open to suggestions, if theres anything you've thought of but are unsure how itll turn out, put the ingredients list in here for a 10L run and ill give it a go next time my fermenters are empty.

[darkonnis]

Im not sure that will have enough diastatic power.

Quite right. To put it bluntly, the chocobob had non. And the yeast didn't even bother, it frothed up fairly nicely in the jug put just went to sleep once it hit the fermenter.
It was nice to see the effect first hand though, as the yeast made a brief effort before H&S shut them down for poor working conditions.
Gonna go for a blacksheep clone next seeing as i've nearly got my AG set up and i'd quite like to do some beer thats drinkable before i do the next experimental BIAB

[stevetk189]

I've been biting my tongue for a while on this one re the Chocobob thing, but unless you just want to throw away a lot of black water that will never ferment, try a few tried and proven recipes first. All grain brewing isn't rocket science (it can be, but it doesn't need to be to make good beer) but there are a few basic essentials to understand. A grain bill composed entirely of roasted to death malts was never going to take off.

By all means experiment, as that is a wonderful thing, but there are certain rules that can't be broken. Base malt is required, the rest comes to experimentation with regard to percentages of other malts to alter the colour and flavour. Then comes hopping and after that using yeasts at different temps to further create new flavours. If it can then be re-produced consistently, voila! Otherwise, expect to throw a lot away and gradually get tired with the hobby. The latter is a shame.

[darkonnis]

I completely agree steve, and i do appreciate your input on the matter. To clear things up a bit:
I never knew anything about diastatic power until andy mentioned it
I didn't know i needed a base malt or why, until i read an article on diastatic power.
In this regard the chocobob was a resounding success, sure i got nothing drinkable out it. But why else would i ever need to consider diastatic power? I am not knocking you in the slightest, you are correct and i couldnt agree more with what you've said. I want things to succeed, thats brilliant, but if i never had a failed brew or a failed anything I would be bored. I would be mightily pissed off (and am on occasion) when something fails and i get nothing out of it, ie i don't learn what went wrong, i just know that XYZ doesn't work with no explanation as to why. For one thing, someone above mentioned that it would be too bitter to drink, the wort wasn't actually that bad, strong, undoubtedly, but i was in no way rinsing my mouth to obscure the taste, had it fermented i have no doubt this really could have been a different story.

I am very new to this, and i am still encountering plenty of issues to keep me thinking and working. Which is good because it keeps me interested.
On that note I'm going to put the question i left open, specifically to you steve:
My next trial BiaB, suggestions?
The remit? :- preferably 8L to go in my 2 demijohns with headroom for the foam, preferably a recipe which is scaled to 8L (9 at a push), I would say, single mash temp as altering it on the stove can be... tricky. It can be a tried recipe, or something you would be interested in seeing how it would work.

On the note of experimentation, Maris is actually not too bad, certainly not undrinkable, with more time in the bottle i have a feeling it might actually turn out rather well

[stevetk189]

The Maris experiment should be totally fine, its base malt.

As for your question to me re what to brew next, there are far too many suggestions but if you're liking the chocobob flavours from the wort you made, why not try a stout?

[darkonnis]

Sounds very reasonable to me, anything in particular? I had debated getting some Malt extract from H&B and doing a ale/lager with the phoenix hops i had left in a 5L demijohn, just to try some yeast i washed. Seeing as you've gotten back to me however, i could just do a stout.

[darkonnis]

Maris the Munich Otter

Doesn't smell of very much, frankly i didn't think it would.
It is however very rich in taste and is quite thick, certainly not a light drink. Not too bad, lots of room for improvement, such as a secondary round of hops near the end to give it some aroma. Less Munich, as the taste isn't bad but its just a little too overpowering at its current amount, I think that by scaling it back a bitand upping the base malt to balance it out will probably give it a less rich taste. Alternatively it could just be diluted.

[jimp2003]

Not really a surprising result when you have half the grain bill made up of munich and a FG of 1020 with only 15IBUs. More bittering would have helped balance things out somewhat and like you say more added for flavour/aroma will add to the overall beer.

Still, most of us are learning from every brew we do and you come across as being realistic about these early results and it will be interesting to see if you brew this one again with changes based on this experience.

Cheers!

Jim

[darkonnis]

I fully intend to, but what i'll likely do is start at the opposite end of the scale and instead of half and half go say MO 1.8kg, munich 0.2kg to get a full appreciation for how much munich can do on the smaller end of things. Whilst i understand the IBU scale, i am still very much learning how much is too much and too little for what i'm after so the hops will just have to be guesstimates.
I have no intention of doing this on a bigger scale really, its more about learning more about malt with these small batches. 40pints of what i've just brewed would upset me but 8 is a good amount.
It'll have to wait until i order more malt though before i re do this, I have a black sheep clone and a guiness clone to do first (in full 23/25L jobby) as the malts arrived, so when i get chance that'll be a good brew day