darkstar hophead clone

[iandiggs]

Hello All. I just did a clone of darkstar's hoppy light Hophead ale. It was nice but a little too bitter and with not enough hoppy taste. I used only cascade hops,20g for all 90 minute boil, then 65g at 10 mins from end of boil then another 65g once wort had called to 80degrees C. Do you think i could do 15g for 90 mins,40g 10 mins from end then a massive steep(100g+?).
I used nottingham yeast also; could i use a yeast that turns less of the sugar to alcohol, retaining some more sweetness? would anybody be able to recommend such a yeast? thanks for your help. ian

[floydmeddler]

Hey Ian,

The beer probably turned out like Darkstar's Hophead. That recipe sounds about right for it. It sounds like you're after something hoppier. If you're planning to hop it to high heavens though, I'd up the malt a bit to give it more backbone. Maybe make it around 4.5%? I'd also have the bitterness at around 30IBU.

Out of a matter of interest, how long ago did you brew it?

[iandiggs]

Thank s Floyd! I did it about a month and a half ago now. The real thing is my favourite ale-absolutely beautiful.
This is probably a stupid question, but how do you measure the bitterness exactly? The cascade hops i use for bittering are 7.9 alpha acid approx. and i used 30g (not 20g) in the 90 minute boil.
I also used 4kg of maris otter, 180g of caramalt and 140g wheat malt (for the head (which is amazing!) I was thinking of upping the maris by another 100g and the caramalt by 100g also, though i mustn't overdo the cara or i'll lose the colour...
Thanks for your help...

[floydmeddler]

Was it 23L? If so, your bitterness was 25.8. About right for hophead. Good choice on not going for 20g... that would have been way too low!

I did a Hophead clone pretty similar to yours and it came out like the real deal. I did use S05 though - so do Darkstar. S05 really allows the hops to 'come out and play'.

What was your OG and FG and I can tell you the exact specs of your current beer? OR, you could download a brewing program. I use Beertools but Beerengine is free.

[orlando]

I find Cascade responds really well to dry hopping so if you want hop aroma without upping the IBU's do that. Wait until the SG is down below 1.015 then use about 40g loose in the FV (don't worry about infection) for a couple of days and once at FG (not before) chill down to below 5c if you can. I would do this rather than upping the 80c charge as a lot of this will "boil" off the volatile oils that give you aroma even though you are a long way after the boil. If you go for a steep it's best to wait till the wort is down to 50c, but this raises infection potential, especially this time of year but you will get the aroma you are after from less hops.

[iandiggs]

Hi Floyd/Orlando,
Floyd-my Og was 1040 and FG was about 1010 but i'd like to make it sweeter next time and add more malt, if possible.
Orlando-Do i still get a fantastic hop taste if i steep at 50c? Or can i steep at 80c still with the same amount or more (100g approx.?) and do your suggested 40g dry-hop later to get the aroma? Gonna use SO5 next time...

[orlando]

The late additions will deal with taste so keep that. The 50c steep is suggested because research has shown that at 80c and over too much of the aroma based oils are driven off, consequently you are having to drive hop volumes higher to compensate. Dry hopping doesn't have that issue so more of the aroma oils become dissolved in the brew. If I may comment on your question to Floyd, the way to extract a little more sweetness is to mash at higher temperatures, what this does is leave more unfermentables in the wort making it less attenuable. You can go for something like crystal or caramalt as these will give the residual sweetness but this will of course impart a character and a flavour to the beer that you may not want, particularly if you are looking for a lighter beer

[iandiggs]

Thanks Orlando. How much caramalt do you think i should add? I used 180g last time, with 4kg of Maris and the wheat malt.
I will definitely do the highr mash-a few degrees higher at, say 68 degrees.
I'm determined to get this right and as near as dammit to the real thing as i can't get enough of hophead, even though it is perhaps viewed by real ale purists as a bit of a fake....

[orlando]

I confess I've never had it and don't know the recipe so find it difficult to advise. Others I'm sure will help with this. What I would suggest though is that you change one thing at a time, whilst doing all you can to control the others as closely as possible. That way you are more likely to understand what effect each change makes. Just think how many times Darkstar brewed it before they were happy, I'll bet it was more than once!

[iandiggs]

I wonder if the factors involved in brewing are more controllable with a microbrewery - they must be. I would love to own my own one day....
Thanks for your help Orlando

[orlando]

Control of the controllables is the essence of consistent and repeatable brewing and is of course largely out of reach for us bucket and spade boys. Having said that the fun for me is looking at every aspect of my process and seeing how it can reasonably be improved. I embrace the variability because I have no real choice but know that I can keep this down to the point that if there is a difference I can at least point to where it occurred and if I can't, I go looking for why, hence reading what happens on here. There are some really good brewers on here and a lot of what I've learned has come from it.

[floydmeddler]

Ian, it will be hard to end this beer on 1010 with S05 as it's quite a high attenuating yeast. My one and only try at Hophead cam in at 1005. However, I did have a watery mash and I didn't hit the right mash temp - too low.

I'm brewing an American mild (Cascade only) brew this wknd which will get served up at my wedding (along with others viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51430) and I'm planning on mashing at 68c. Will also ensure the mash is damp and stodgy as opposed to watery. My hope is that the FG will be around 1008.

[floydmeddler]

P.S, Dark Star use low colour Maris Otter for Hopehead.

[willc76]

I'm planning on following a hophead type recipe I found somewhere - it calls for all cascade, but i'm doing a 40l brew and have a bit of a mix of hops:

100g cascade pellets
100g amarillo pellets
100g mount hood
100g brewers gold
shedloads of apollo

I just don't know what order to use them in - I'm nervous about destroying charachteristics by using the apollo in the late additions. I did an apollo single hop on Saturday (although 5.5% aimed for) so making it entierly apollo, whilst reasonable, would just give me a similar ish beer - I think.

It doesn't need to be Hophead exactly, but a similar colour and bitterness with a different hop flavour would be fine (ie just needs to be tasty!)

Any ideas?

Will

[floydmeddler]

Just seeing this. How did you get on with this? Apollo is pretty damn pungent. I used 40g dry hopped in a 25L brew and it was strong. Delicious though! Love that hop.