Wyeast 1469 West Yorks Ale - Recipes please!!!

[CestrIan]

I've got a wyeast 1469 (WLP037 equivalent) Yorkshire square yeast starter on the go and plan to do a TTL attempt for my first brew, but I plan to keep this yeast going for 4 or 5 brews at least. Has anyone got any other recipes for this yeast? I plan on doing a black sheep Riggwelter with it but am stuck for ideas as I haven't used this one before.

[Dr. Dextrin]

I tried that yeast with a Riggwelter recipe and found the result rather too dry (it's quite a sweet beer). Next time I'm going to use the yeast from a bottle of Fullers 1845 instead.

[Lars]

Hi CestrIan, what recipe u using for TTL? I intend brewing this next week: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... recipe=680
If youre looking for inspiration you could try one of these: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... d=1&sort=5
The red or Dr Smurtos golden ale might work with that yeast...

[CestrIan]

I tried that yeast with a Riggwelter recipe and found the result rather too dry (it's quite a sweet beer). Next time I'm going to use the yeast from a bottle of Fullers 1845 instead.

I thought I'd heard an episode of brewstrong wher Jamil interviewed the head brewer at Black Sheep and I'm sure he said they used 1469, what was your mash temp?

[CestrIan]

Thanks for the links Lars!

[seymour]

According to the brewer’s notes for Black Sheep Riggwelter (bottle) state "5.7% ABV...Ingredients: water, malted barley, wheat, sugar, hops” and elsewhere “distinctive roast malt…Goldings hops…”

SEYMOUR RIGGWELTER BOTTLE CLONE (update)
All-grain recipe
5 Imperial gallons = 6 US gallons = 22.7 liters

67.7% ≈ 3.5 kg ≈ 7.75 lb, Maris Otter 2-row pale malt
17.5% ≈ 680 g ≈ 2 lb, Torrified wheat
13.1% ≈ 500 g ≈ 1.5 lb, Dark Brown Cane Sugar (in boil)
1.7% ≈ 85 g ≈ 2 oz, Roasted Barley

Bittering hops: 57 g/3 oz, Goldings, 90 minutes remaining
Aroma hops: 28 g/1 oz, Goldings, 5 minutes remaining

Mash @ 66°C until converted, sparge and add brown sugar to boil kettle.
90 minute boil, Irish moss for clarity near end of boil.
Ferment using Wyeast 1469 Yorkshire Ale yeast.
Prime keg/bottles with ½ cup brown sugar boiled in a little water to sanitize.
Store 1 week at fermentation temperature, then 3 weeks at 10-16°C if possible.

Estimated stats based on 80% mash efficiency and 75% yeast attenuation:
OG ≈ 1.059
FG ≈ 1.015
ABV ≈ 5.7%
IBU ≈ 32
Color ≈ 11°SRM/22°EBC

[CestrIan]

Thanks for the recipe seymour. That looks like a lot of RB though. It could end up tasting more roasty than the real thing. I think Jamil uses chocolate malt in his clone.

[Dr. Dextrin]

I tried that yeast with a Riggwelter recipe and found the result rather too dry (it's quite a sweet beer). Next time I'm going to use the yeast from a bottle of Fullers 1845 instead.

I thought I'd heard an episode of brewstrong wher Jamil interviewed the head brewer at Black Sheep and I'm sure he said they used 1469, what was your mash temp?

It was the interviewer who chose to use that yeast for the clone, not the brewery. The recipe also used pale chocolate malt. I brewed it and it wasn't much like Riggwelter TBH. The mash temp was given by the Black Sheep brewer as 66C according to my notes and I think I followed all the advice given as closely as possible.

seymour's recipe involving roasted barley (and no chocolate malt at all) isn't too dissimilar to my best attempt so far, but you need it to finish fairly sweet or the roasted grain makes it too bitter. Maybe 1469 would do it with the correct handling, but it's finished too dry on too many occasions for me (even with a high mash temp), so it's now relegated to the back of the fridge.

[seymour]

I tried that yeast with a Riggwelter recipe and found the result rather too dry (it's quite a sweet beer). Next time I'm going to use the yeast from a bottle of Fullers 1845 instead.

I thought I'd heard an episode of brewstrong wher Jamil interviewed the head brewer at Black Sheep and I'm sure he said they used 1469, what was your mash temp?

It was the interviewer who chose to use that yeast for the clone, not the brewery. The recipe also used pale chocolate malt. I brewed it and it wasn't much like Riggwelter TBH. The mash temp was given by the Black Sheep brewer as 66C according to my notes and I think I followed all the advice given as closely as possible.

seymour's recipe involving roasted barley (and no chocolate malt at all) isn't too dissimilar to my best attempt so far, but you need it to finish fairly sweet or the roasted grain makes it too bitter. Maybe 1469 would do it with the correct handling, but it's finished too dry on too many occasions for me (even with a high mash temp), so it's now relegated to the back of the fridge.

Good feedback, thanks Dr. Dextrin! So, you found Wyeast 1469-PC to finish quite dry even with elevated mashing temperatures (have you ever gone higher than 66)? Also, speaking of your best attempt, what type/quantity of simple sugars do you recommend?

[seymour]

I've got a wyeast 1469 (WLP037 equivalent)....

Also, just a quibble, but according to my notes these aren't truly the same yeast strain, despite sharing the word "Yorkshire" in their brand names. Wyeast 1469-PC "West Yorkshire Ale" is the classic Timothy Taylor Brewery strain, whereas White Labs WLP037 "Yorkshire Square" is the one likely used by Black Sheep, perhaps originally from Theakstons. Both are predictably English ale yeasts, malty and well-balanced, but the Wyeast is fuller and finishes drier, has some nutty and stone-fruit esters, highly flocculent and particularly well-suited from cask-conditioning. The White Labs is described as "toasty" and doesn't have those other traits going for it (at least not to the same extent).

Anyone ever do a side-by-side comparison with these two yeasts (which I content are different, but I suppose I could be wrong)?

[CestrIan]

That's interesting seymour I thought they were the same yeast. You say it finished dry DrDextrin. Do you remember what your original and finishing gravity was at 66C?

[Dr. Dextrin]

I don't seem to have logged my Riggwelter FG, but it started at 1059 and my tasting notes (tasting against a bottle of Black Sheep Riggwelter) definitely found it to be too dry. I think it should finish around 1013 or 1014, so it was probably somewhere near 1010 at a guess. I used 5% white sugar. Eliminating the sugar might make it a bit sweeter, but it definitely says sugar on the bottle.

I've also used 1469 in a Black Sheep Ale clone, mashing at 69C. This initially finished at 1012 but then drifted slowly down to 1010. Again, the tasting found it to be too dry and lacking diacetyl.

I've found these two beers to be a problem as regards finishing too dry and a bit thin. The thing they have in common is quite a high wheat content, so I'm wondering if this is a factor.

Black Sheep beers have a strong malt/toffee/butterscotch (diacetyl?) sort of taste and in retrospect I'd be surprised if the Timothy Taylor yeast would produce that. Whether WLP037 is any closer, I don't know. I guess that's one for the future.

Right now I'm experimenting with Fullers yeasts as I want to learn how to control diacetyl and Fullers yeast seems to produce a lot of it. I'm hoping that'll also help with the Black Sheep clones as Fullers has finished pretty sweet in the 2 brews I've tried so far.