Wheeler V Beersmith Hop Calculation

[SteveD]

If you really want to find out if your chosen formula is reflecting what you're actually getting in your beers then Brewlabs offer one-off analysis services for beer. A single bitterness determination costs £16.50 (+VAT?). A full package of four analyses (Bitterness, Colour, ABV and pH) costs £35 (+VAT).

http://www.brewlab.co.uk/pdf/onebestway ... 07_web.pdf

I seem to recall that they give a discount to CBA members. I could be mistaken though.

They do. I think it was a tenner to CBA members when the full price was fifteen quid.

[Scooby]

It's all b0llox

Your quite right SteveD as the above calcs prove Garetz gets me closest to Wheeler but more important most of the time gives me the bitterness I prefer

[inthedark]

I've been using BeerToolsPro and have only just found the bit which shows what utilization method is used - the default is 25%, but the various other 'named' methods are also available. You can also edit the utilization graph to anything you want, so if Wheeler assumes 20%, you can set it to that.

I have no preference, since I have no experience to speak of - I'm still waiting for my first AG to be ready to drink...

[steve_flack]

In the end the formulas are all just tools - they are extremely unlikely to give you an accurate, bang-on figure for your bitterness. If you find one that works for you then great but I think generally it's extremely unrealistic to say 'I'm going to make a 31.6 IBU beer'. As SteveD says there's far too many variables in a homebrew context.

Why then do software programs offer so much choice? Because people ask for it. BeerAlchemy originally only had Tinseth. People asked for more flexibility - so they got it. FWIW I use Tinseth as I find it works for my taste buds. Whether or not it's predicting anywhere near the ACTUAL IBUs is another thing.

[PieOPah]

I just use the default for beertools pro.

It works for me. I am happy with the results I get in my beers.

[Bryggmester]

I just refer to past notes and then make a guesstimate taking into account the supposed alpha acid of the current hops. I know for example that 2.75 or 3oz goldings in the boil and .75 oz near the end will get the result I want. If I am using a new hop type I experiment but I usually get it right.

[Horden Hillbilly]

Wheelers calculations for me. I started ag brewing in 1996 and did not own a pc until a couple of years ago, so it was that or nothing!

[JacktheMac]

Here is how not to do it. I totally screwed up my last 10 gallon batch by over-hopping to the extent that I had a Tinseth IBU of 62. I just chucked in a load of hops without thinking about Northdown AA - what a twit:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: harlaw ale
Brewer: JacktheMac
Asst Brewer: mudgrubber
Style: American Brown Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) HIGHLY OVER HOPPED IBU > 60

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 52.00 L
Boil Size: 62.62 L
Estimated OG: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 13.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 64.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 76.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.50 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 78.9 %
1.50 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 15.8 %
0.50 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC)Grain 5.3 %
84.00 gm Northdown [8.00%] (90 min) Hops 36.5 IBU
84.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.90%] (90 min) Hops 22.3 IBU
50.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60%] (15 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
50.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60%] (0 min) Hops -



I had to then go and brew another under-hopped batch to blend in and even so it is probably still pretty bracing stuff:

Recipe: adjusting ale
Brewer: JacktheMac
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Brown Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 30.11 L
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 46.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 73.2 %
1.00 kg Barley, Flaked (3.3 EBC) Grain 12.2 %
1.00 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC)Grain 12.2 %
0.20 kg Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC) Grain 2.4 %
56.30 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (90 min) Hops 25.4 IBU



The resulting mixture should be around 47 IBU, OG equivalent 1.048 but probably less because some of the hops were getting on a bit.

[SteveD]

Mature it for a couple of months, maybe more. The bitterness should recede a bit, though 47 for an OG1048 should be ok. London Pride is somewhere around the 40 mark, and that doesn't taste excessively bitter.

[steve_flack]

London Pride is somewhere around the 40 mark, and that doesn't taste excessively bitter.

I don't think London Pride is that high. I'd put it in the low thirties. Summer Lightning is about 40IBU and that's way more bitter than LP.

[UserDeleted]

XL Spreadsheet using Tinseth and Promash set to Tinseth

Analysis shows that my utilisation is3% less than predicted by Tinseths 'standard' formula, hence the spreadsheet with the values 'tweaked' for my brewery.

AA measurement in hops is NOT something that you should do at home as the ASBC method (The standard method) involves extracting the AA from the hops using Benzene, which is strictly a fume cupboard and gloves operation. It's easier to measure it in beer, but you do need a UV capable spectrophotometer.

There is an interesting comment Here about curve plotting the AA levels at various times during the boil.

Of course it is all pretty moot as the average pallate can is only able to distinguish a IBU difference of 5IBU, and a trained one around 3IBU So taking Daniels as the middle ground means

Tinseth 55 EBU
Daniels 58 EBU
Rager 62 EBU

will all have the same apparant bitterness to most drinkers. of course Garetz and Wheeler are way off from this, personally in my system Wheeler's method produced well overbittered beers.

[SteveD]

London Pride is somewhere around the 40 mark, and that doesn't taste excessively bitter.

I don't think London Pride is that high. I'd put it in the low thirties. Summer Lightning is about 40IBU and that's way more bitter than LP.

I suggest you take it up with Fullers then, and let them know their calcs are wrong. The info was directly from their brewers.

[steve_flack]

That may have been what they SAID but no way is London Pride 40 IBU.

I'd put LP at 30-32 and ESB 35-37. Chiswick not sure... it feels bitter but may well be in the 35-37 as well.

[Andy]

From some beer festival list:-

London Pride 4.1 1041 ~30 A fruity sweet malt nose with a hoppy edge that is also present on the palate and aftertaste. Mellow peachy/orange notes give way to a lingering dry, bitter taste. — GBG 2007


Numbers are ABV, OG, IBU....

[JacktheMac]

Mature it for a couple of months, maybe more. The bitterness should recede a bit, though 47 for an OG1048 should be ok. London Pride is somewhere around the 40 mark, and that doesn't taste excessively bitter.

I tried it yesterday at about three weeks old. There is no way it tasted like a 47 IBU beer. I suspect the age of some of the hops, stored in a cool cupboard but up to a year old, meant the AA was way down. I know some brewing software allows hop age and storage temperature to be included, but how often is this used by anyone - I certainly never thought to (but then as I said I didn't even check the Northdown AA - duhhh). Another thing is that even though hops come with an AA figure, there must be variation around this, from pack to pack - anyone know how big this is?