New to water treatment

[eight0]

So how important is water treatment? I prefer an IPA and apparently London water is too hard for an IPA.

I emailed Thames water (Hackney West) and they came back with the following

Hardness (CaCO3) - 267.5 ppm
They didn't give me a calcium content but from the above I calculate the calcium to be 106.8 (267.5 x 0.4 = 106.
Sodium - 34.5 ppm
Chloride- 58.5 ppm
Sulphate - 54.4 ppm
Alkalinity - 215 and 185 from the two samples collected.

Can I just get away with adding CRS for an IPA? I've read the ratio with my numbers should be 1.4 ml/l - would I then need to add more calcium?

[Eric]

Water treatment can be very important, but you do need to know what your water contains to get best and consistent results. To determine the amount of CRS to use you need to know your water's alkalinity, the figure you were given is of hardness, both are quoted relative to CaCO3.
Water company figures are often averages of readings taken in the past and not necessarily the same as the water from your tap. I've brewed today to find I need only 60% the amount of CRS more frequently used, possibly due to recent heavy rains. It is worth buying a kit to measure alkalinity, Salifert (for about £8) seems to be the most popular but there are others, made for testing alkalinity of water in aquariums.
As for calcium, I read that the minimum figure for ales is 100 ppm, make sure with 150 and maximum 200. However, although figures provided for alkalinity as well as any you would measure will be quoted as CaCO3, not all those ions will be calcium but include magnesium and perhaps others, so although your 106 figure is mathematically correct, the actual amount of calcium will be less.
Addendum: If the hardness figure was that for alkalinity, you maybe need to use marginally less CRS than you suggest. 1.4 ml would remove 1.4 X 180mg of CaCO3, or 252mg which would leave only 15ppm CaCO3, a bit low perhaps? This also examples how being able to do your own measurements can be vitally important. Also just seen that alkalinity is given, but which of those two figures might you use with confidence?

[Eric]

It's me again. If the above doesn't make sense, it's me, today's brew hasn't, isn't going as it ought, so I'll blame that.
I've read your other posts and if you value my opinion, leave water profiling alone for a while. As far as I see, you are perfectly correct in probably every assumption you've made, but brewing isn't always predictive, especially when you do it in a home environment where others expect a more ordinary existence.
From what I see, your water is good in many respects, but you correctly identify it is not ideal for an IPA. CRS correctly applied will play an important part in solving that, but, with so many other factors to influence any outcome, might I suggest you just brew using tap water? If you get the rest anywhere near right you could get quite a shock. IPA might just be one of many that turns you on.
To put this into a kind of perspective, I'm drinking the latest of several glasses of half and halfs. Both were quite nice brews, but combinations of the two are superb, almost heavenly. Don't delay the venture.

[eight0]

Wow thanks for all the information Eric. Much appreciated. I understand completely and I think I will take your advice and just do a brew and see how it comes out. As you've probably seen in my other posts I haven't tried out my equipment yet so there are plenty of other factors that I'll need to perfect/work out before moving onto the water treatment - mash tun dead space etc. I've done tonnes of reading and theory, now it's time to put it into practice I think.
Maybe my best bet is to brew a London ale, it will be darker and so handle the alkalinity better, plus it will be a proper winter brew!
Thanks again for your advice.

[Dave S]

This may be a daft question and probably is, well three questions really. I too am new to serious thinking on water treatment. Up 'til now I have blindly used Dave Line's recommendation of one teaspoon gypsum and half a teaspoon Epsom Salts for bitter/IPA. I see using Graham's calculator with my local water analysis that these quantities are way too low. I have read on other posts that some people add their salts a 100% to the mash and others split between mash and boil. My questions are:

1. If you put it all in the mash should the mash pH settle ideally on 5.2?
2. If you split them won't this upset the mash pH if 1. is true?
3. If you put it all in the mash, should your target liquor volume in G's calculator be mash liquor or total length? I suspect total length.

Thanks for any advice given.

[Dave S]

Don't know how many have seen this, but there is a rather nice and easy-to-follow Brupaks explanation and guide to water treatment here http://www.brupaks.com/water%20treatment.htm. I thought it made things quite clear.

[haz66]

Water treatment in any city is hard to do unless you do a test yourself prior to each brew, London being the worst, as London uses 7 different sources for water,
and you`ll never know from one brew to the next from which of these your water is coming from as they can change at the drop of a hat, same in all cities, water doesnt come from the same place on a constant basis and not only that it can come from almost anywhere in the country due to the massive network of water pipes running up and down the country, Most of Burnley`s water comes from the Lakes ?
The easiest thing to do as suggested elsewhere is brew with the water as is and see how your beer turns out, or buy bottled water for the mash so you have a constant to work from.

[Dave S]

I used Salifert to calculate the alkalinity, and intend to use that before each brew. My brews up to now have been done with no water treatment, except for a teaspoon of gypsum for pales and a teaspoon of Precipitated chalk for stout. I have found the stouts OK, probably due the amount of roasted barley. But the pales have been a little harsh, probably due to high mash pH. I am hoping for an improvement in this by treating the water in future.