More conditioning problems!

[alwilson]

Evening Guys

I'm still having conditioning problems! I thnk its down to my conditioning/storage temps.

I generally keep them in the same place as for the FV's whcih is a temp controlled cabinet - and my last batch of beer despite using the same quantity of sugar as before is flat as pancake!

I understand carbonation of a combination of temperature, time and carbon dioxide, so do I need to keep them cool for them to carbonate up? If so, how cool is sufficient/ideal?

Secondly, do higher OG beers need more priming sugar?

I was really hoping for a one size fits all quantity of sugar for my usual beer IPA, Porters and regular bitters. I can understand a Hefeweizen would typically be carb'd up a bit more, but right now I cant even my house beers to be consistent.

Any thoughts? What am I doing wrong, for this batch I used 125g of granulated sugar in 91 litres of beer. The previous batch of this beer, identical recipe, I used 125g and the beer was perfectly carbonated; the time before that I used 200g of sugar (finger in the air moment) and the beer was a ton of bottle bombs...

So, something is going wrong somewhere! I starting to think itsn ot quantity of sugar now but my environment I store them in...

So, any help is welcomed as usual

Alex

[mark4newman]

Hi

I'm still having conditioning problems!

Try using a seperate shampoo and conditioner.

so do I need to keep them cool for them to carbonate up?

No they must be warm, about 23C is ideal. Then the yeast will much the sugar and make CO2

Secondly, do higher OG beers need more priming sugar?

No less, because there are more difficult to munch sugars , which the yeast will eat over time.


So, something is going wrong somewhere! I starting to think itsn ot quantity of sugar now but my environment I store them in...


Keep it warm for a couple of weeks. Or top tip, put some in a plastic fizzy water bottle, and then you can feel it priming, and then you can judge the time by this, rather than opening bottles

[alwilson]

Hi Mark

We have them at 23c now and they are flat after 5 weeks.

I then do not understand why high OG beers need less priming, my IPA OG 1060 with 185g of priming per 91L leans on the flatter side. Yet this Bitter OG 1048 is flat after 5 weeks with 125g of sugar per 91l

I like the plastic bottle indicator!

[seymour]

Perhaps part of the confusion is the dual-meaning of the term "bottle-conditioning." With regards to secondary fermentation leading to bottle carbonation, I think warm not cool. You need to kick-start the tired yeast back into action, and they prefer warmer environments than we typically ferment at. Of course, at warmer temps they throw-off more esters and phenols than we want in our beer. This is a big concern in primary fermentation, which is why you use a temperature controlled cabinet, but a much smaller concern in your finished beer with only a very small percentage of unfermented sugar.

The second meaning of "bottle-conditioning" involves returning the carbonated bottles to a cooler environment to encourage the reinvigorated yeast to clean up its own mess, metabolizing any off-tastes low and slow. This is exactly what the Trappists do with their beer, all of which is bottled.

Many people expect to "get amongst" their bottles in 1 or 2 weeks, but I think best-practice would be: store bottles 1 week at warmish room temperature, then 3 weeks at 50-60°F/10-16°C, maybe even a little colder but reduced yeast efficiency makes it take even longer.

If that still doesn't work, you should consider adding fresh yeast at bottling.

[alwilson]

Seymour, thanks.

My problem is purely carbonation, they taste great at 5 weeks, but no fizz, and I mean NONE!

So do you think ~10 days at 23C, follows by 21 days @ 10~15C would sort this problem

[seymour]

...So do you think ~10 days at 23C, follows by 21 days @ 10~15C would sort this problem

Yes, unless the yeast is truly dead and gone. Perhaps you filtered or cold-crashed them all the way out, which would be a kegging/force-carbonation brewer's dream come true. I bet you've got a few cells in there ready to report for duty, though.

[gnutz2]

Do you Fine or filter the beer? whats your process prior to bottling?

If there is 125g of sugar and some yeast then you will get carbonation, are you sure theres any yeast?

Were the bottles, caps and bottle capper the same on both batches.

Also, i never cold condition, the closest it gets is half an hour in the fridge before i sup it, i get perfectly card beers.

[alwilson]

Yup we do use finings, we use Auxiliary finings from murphys, followed by Isinglass in the FV.

[seymour]

Yup we do use finings, we use Auxiliary finings from murphys, followed by Isinglass in the FV.

That's why. I've probably grown predictable, but I think clarity's overrated, especially if you're counting on the slight yeast haze to carbonate your bottles. Your fining regime will be perfect when you switch to kegging.

[alwilson]

But other bottles come out fine (no pun).

[alwilson]

I clicked submit too soon!

So given that I like fining my beer, is there a way to get reliably carbonated beer and still use finings?

[seymour]

...given that I like fining my beer, is there a way to get reliably carbonated beer and still use finings?

I don't mean to sound defeatist, but maybe not (at least not fining to such a highly efficient extent.) You can't have it both ways. If you want the yeast to naturally carbonate your bottles, you'll have to let a little go into the bottles. Otherwise, you can keg and force carbonate with a CO2 tank. The other possibility (worst of both worlds, in my opinion) is to bottle, but then use a complicated and costly CO2 bottling device to force carbonate each bottle. Many micro-breweries fill their limited-edition tall bottles and corked magnums this way, but it's labor intensive.
http://www.ratebeer.com/forums/blichman ... 207639.htm

On my paler brews, I use basic Irish Moss near the end of my boil, allow primary fermentation to complete at it's own pace, then rack to a secondary fermentor for awhile (sometimes adding dry hops at this point), then rack to a bottling bucket, leaving behind lots of trub each time, and in this way achieve very clear beer with just enough live yeast to carbonate.

[alwilson]

Oh and as an addendum there certainly is yeast in the bottles, becasue the fluffy scum line is around the bottom. So, I dont think I've fined out ALL the yeast.

[seymour]

Oh and as an addendum there certainly is yeast in the bottles, becasue the fluffy scum line is around the bottom. So, I dont think I've fined out ALL the yeast.

Well that's good, and it sounds like it's worked out in the past. Warmer temps and longer durations should work then. My batches often take a month to carbonate sufficiently, but they keep going and going, when I open a bottle after a couple years it's a Champagne gusher.

[alwilson]

Cool, I hope so! Certainly when I pour a beer badly it goes cloudy, so there is yeast in the bottle.

You have beer around for a couple of years?! Wow... That's will power.. or did you just lose them drunk one evening and find them during a house move?