How improtant is water treatment?

Horden Hillbilly · Post by **Horden Hillbilly** » Thu May 10, 2007 7:08 pm

Water filter for me & usually a pinch of gypsum in the mash tun for p.h. adjustment. I used Brupaks CRS for the first time recently. after the boil there was hardly any limescale on the element so it definitely made a difference.

kinnockthecat · Post by **kinnockthecat** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:46 pm

My local water supply here in Guildford has a mean hardness of 268 ppm of CaCO3. So presumably it reasonably hard. Also a mean ph of 7.3 Any comments on how to treat it?

UserDeleted · Post by **UserDeleted** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:57 pm

kinnockthecat wrote:My local water supply here in Guildford has a mean hardness of 268 ppm of CaCO3. So presumably it reasonably hard. Also a mean ph of 7.3 Any comments on how to treat it?

Reduce the alkalinity to below 50mg/l(by adding acid) add gypsum to boost hop profile or calcium chloride to boost malt profile.

Post by **Andy** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:00 pm

kinnockthecat wrote:My local water supply here in Guildford has a mean hardness of 268 ppm of CaCO3. So presumably it reasonably hard. Also a mean ph of 7.3 Any comments on how to treat it?

I'm in Ash so not a million miles away

I add 0.3ml* of Brupaks CRS to each litre of mash liquor before I dough in. That seems to get my pH to arround the 5.2 pH mark.

If I were brewing a stout/porter then I'd probably not bother with any CRS.

* edited - originally had stated 3ml / litre which was a typo

SteveD · Post by **SteveD** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:41 pm

UserDeleted wrote:I have pretty soft water, with very low alkalinity, I do no water treatment and my beer is fine.

I should add calcium in order to improve the hot break, and the mash reactions, andf I do have some CaCl2 nd Gypsum but nearly always forget to add it.

You lucky git.

UserDeleted · Post by **UserDeleted** » Tue May 15, 2007 8:20 am

I'm just hoping that I haven't angered the Beer gods by being so smug

kinnockthecat · Post by **kinnockthecat** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:07 pm

Cheers lads.

Thanks for all the hints regarding water treatment, I'll try them out each time I brew and see what suits best.

Andy lives nearest to me so I'll try his suggestion first.

onlooker · Post by **onlooker** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:56 am

I'm just hoping that I haven't angered the Beer gods by being so smug

Yes be carefull. I have been suffering some rather pronounced sulfur issues as a result , I suspect, of my councle changing my water supply for winter.

I want the old water back ...

guest5234 · Post by **guest5234** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:31 pm

onlooker wrote:
I'm just hoping that I haven't angered the Beer gods by being so smug
Yes be carefull. I have been suffering some rather pronounced sulfur issues as a result , I suspect, of my councle changing my water supply for winter.

I want the old water back ...

I live near stratford upon avon, and our water still comes from the elan valley in Wales it is soft water, I just use half a campden tablet as advised on this forum.

SteveD · Post by **SteveD** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:08 am

Andy wrote:
kinnockthecat wrote:My local water supply here in Guildford has a mean hardness of 268 ppm of CaCO3. So presumably it reasonably hard. Also a mean ph of 7.3 Any comments on how to treat it?
I'm in Ash so not a million miles away

I add 3ml of Brupaks CRS to each litre of mash liquor before I dough in. That seems to get my pH to arround the 5.2 pH mark.

If I were brewing a stout/porter then I'd probably not bother with any CRS.

That's heavy! So, to 15L mash liquor you're adding 45ml of CRS? No wonder your PH drops low without any further assistance. However, I'm not sure you're supposed to use CRS in that way. It's used to knock out excess carbonate hardness, not to acidify the liquor much beyond that. If you've got a pale ale grist that needs acidifying to get it to 5.2, I'd rather use DLS for that as you're putting in beneficial calcium sulphate and calcium chloride. For soft water lagers I'd use lactic acid to get the PH right. CRS is a blend of sulphuric and hydrochloric acids. What you're doing is adding an excess of them to get the mash PH down. Not as good a plan as adding the weaker acids or salts as described.

What are you doing to the sparge liquor?

Post by **Andy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:08 am

Oopppps! Typo

0.3ml of CRS per litre of mash liquor is what I actually use.

Sorry Kinnock or anyone else who dumped in 3ml / litre

Post by **Aleman** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:31 am

SteveD wrote:For soft water lagers I'd use lactic acid to get the PH right. CRS is a blend of sulphuric and hydrochloric acids. What you're doing is adding an excess of them to get the mash PH down. Not as good a plan as adding the weaker acids or salts as described.

Well apart from Andy's typo, I have to say that Using Lactic is often not a good idea with pilsners as you can end up with a Lactic sourness to the beer. Some people are more sensitive to this than others (Particularly if you have a loact Twang to your house brews

).

Bizzarely using CRS instead of lactic to cancel the alkalinity of the water is perfectly the right thing to do as it does not carry a 'sour' taint!

Personally I use 75% phosphoric acid in the region of 0.3ml per 50L

SteveD · Post by **SteveD** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:53 pm

TJB wrote:
SteveD wrote:For soft water lagers I'd use lactic acid to get the PH right. CRS is a blend of sulphuric and hydrochloric acids. What you're doing is adding an excess of them to get the mash PH down. Not as good a plan as adding the weaker acids or salts as described.
I have to say that Using Lactic is often not a good idea with pilsners as you can end up with a Lactic sourness to the beer. Some people are more sensitive to this than others (Particularly if you have a loact Twang to your house brews ).

Bizzarely using CRS instead of lactic to cancel the alkalinity of the water is perfectly the right thing to do as it does not carry a 'sour' taint!

Personally I use 75% phosphoric acid in the region of 0.3ml per 50L

Disagree, mate. I defy anyone to pick up lactic sourness at a rate of 5-10ml in 23L! What do the continental brewers, particularly Germans, do to acidify their lager mashes? 40c acidification rest? Use of acid malt? Which acid? Yep, lactic.

As to CRS - have you tasted it? Or for that matter 'Battery acid', or 'stomach acid', which is what CRS is. I'd rather taste lactic acid than those, any day.

Yes, CRS is used to neutralise alkalinity. The key word here is neutralise.... it's not supposed to be used to acidify beyond near neutrality. Even the makers tell us this. That's what we use the weak acids and salts for.

SteveD · Post by **SteveD** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:55 pm

Andy wrote:Oopppps! Typo

0.3ml of CRS per litre of mash liquor is what I actually use.

Sorry Kinnock or anyone else who dumped in 3ml / litre

Ahh sanity has returned!

Seveneer · Post by **Seveneer** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:17 pm

I voted "No" as I brewed for many years without so much as a campden tablet. My beer was still superior to that in the pub. That said, I brewed a lot of dark beers to make up for my hard water.

Lately though I've been carried away on the treatment bandwaggon and have started lowering the pH of my mash and sparge liquor. The early results are promising.

I would say that it's not absolutely necessary to treat your water unless your beers are not good and you've eliminated all other process errors. However, once you get the process down and you feel you want to continue improving the quality of your beer, it's a good next step.

BTW, I've brewed some lovely pils style beers with hard water treated with lactic acid without even a hint of sourness

/Phil.

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How improtant is water treatment?

To treat or not to treat?