Shepherd Neame 1698

Dave S · Post by **Dave S** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:48 pm

Does anyone know of a recipe for this delicious ale. I've never tasted anything so chocolatey, (apart from chocolate that is). Only got acquainted with it a couple of months ago, and it would be nice to have a crack at it.

Post by **seymour** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:57 pm

Not a recipe, per se, but check-out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33419

It sounds to me like most Shepherd Neame beers are basically:

76-77% Pale malt
11-12% Crystal malt
10-12% Syrup

Target and Goldings hops to IBU: 41 (which is higher than average for commercial English ales)

You could substitute 5-8% chocolate malt, but the bigggest difference with 1698 would be alcoholic strength, so formulate your recipe to 6.5% ABV (as opposed to their typical 5.4% ABV.) I've heard BrewLabs archives their actual yeast.

This would be my best-guess:

77% Pale malt
7% Chocolate malt
4% Crystal malt
12% Syrup

Best of luck!

Dave S · Post by **Dave S** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:07 pm

seymour wrote:Not a recipe, per se, but check-out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33419

It sounds to me like most Shepherd Neame beers are basically:

76-77% Pale malt
11-12% Crystal malt
10-12% Syrup

Target and Goldings hops to IBU: 41 (which is higher than average for commercial English ales)

You could substitute 5-8% chocolate malt, but the bigggest difference with 1698 would be alcoholic strength, so formulate your recipe to 6.5% ABV (as opposed to their typical 5.4% ABV.) I've heard BrewLabs archives their actual yeast.

This would be my best-guess:

77% Pale malt
7% Chocolate malt
4% Crystal malt
12% Syrup

Best of luck!

Thanks Seymour. What kind of syrup do you reckon it would be? I new about the hop mix. Apparently there are 3 additions - Target full boil, EKG last 15 mins and EKG post boil.

Dr. Dextrin · Post by **Dr. Dextrin** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:15 pm

Chocolate, you say? I can't recall it tasting of chocolate, but more like a stronger version of Bishops Finger. Dark toffee maybe? That'd figure if (as seymour suggests) it follows the usual SN recipe pattern.

I have cultured the yeast from a bottle of 1697, though, and I thought it imparted quite a SN type of taste. So I'd suggest that might be a good way to go.

Dave S · Post by **Dave S** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:23 pm

Dr. Dextrin wrote:Chocolate, you say? I can't recall it tasting of chocolate, but more like a stronger version of Bishops Finger. Dark toffee maybe? That'd figure if (as seymour suggests) it follows the usual SN recipe pattern.

I have cultured the yeast from a bottle of 1697, though, and I thought it imparted quite a SN type of taste. So I'd suggest that might be a good way to go.

It's definitely chocolate to me, though my taste buds could be f**ked. But I agree, it makes sense to culture the yeast from the actual beast.

Post by **seymour** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:24 pm

Okay, this may ruffle some feathers. The brewer stated Malt Syrup, which would be the costly, highly processed malt extract packaged in homebrew kits. I don't believe it. They are a brewery, fully capable of mashing their own grains for less cost. For various reasons, breweries don't like to admit using simple sugars, but I bet that's what they use: brewer's caramel, invert syrup, cane sugar, high fructose corn syrup, something along those lines. It's not a shameful practice, it's historically accurate for English and Belgian ale, and goes a long way to explaining Shepherd Neame's flavors too, if you get right down to it.

With regards to your homebrew recipe, I'd recommend Tate & Lyle's golden syrup, or making your own Invert Syrup from raw cane sugar, or best of all:
drain several pints of the first runnings to a separate pot, stir in 10-12% overall weight in brown sugar, and boil-down to a caramelized syrup which you eventually add to the main boil. This is fact will become dark and molasses/toffee-like, reducing your need for chocolate malt. Yum!

Dave S · Post by **Dave S** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:27 pm

seymour wrote:Okay, this may ruffle some feathers. The brewer stated Malt Syrup, which would be the costly, highly processed malt extract packaged in homebrew kits. I don't believe it. They are a brewery, fully capable of mashing their own grains for less cost. For various reasons, breweries don't like to admit using simple sugars, but I bet that's what they use: brewer's caramel, invert syrup, cane sugar, high fructose corn syrup, something along those lines. It's not a shameful practice, it's historically accurate for English and Belgian ale, and goes a long way to explaining Shepherd Neame's flavors too, if you get right down to it.

With regards to your homebrew recipe, I'd recommend Tate & Lyle's golden syrup, or making your own Invert Syrup from raw cane sugar, or best of all:
drain several pints of the first runnings to a separate pot, stir in 10-12% overall weight in brown sugar, and boil-down to a caramelized syrup which you eventually add to the main boil. This is fact will become dark and molasses/toffee-like, reducing your need for chocolate malt. Yum!

A few good ideas to try out anyway. Thanks chaps.

BrewBoyJoe · Post by **BrewBoyJoe** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:41 pm

Hi Guys,
I tasted this ale for the first time a few weeks ago and immediately decided to give it a crack. Delicious orange peel type flavour, full body and deceptively alcoholic (tasting it you would't think 6.5%). I agree, I wasn't particularly getting chocolate flavour, more Dark toffee / butterscotch. Unfortunately it's not in Graham's book or any of my others despite being a longstanding award winning ale. I've since been trawling the internet for ideas! I intend to recreate the magic on a modest 45 litre scale! Has anyone made this beer yet, incorporating some of the above ideas? How did you get on?
Cheers
Joe

BrewBoyJoe · Post by **BrewBoyJoe** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:42 pm

PS. I wrote to the brewer! I'll let you know how I get on with that!

djavet · Post by **djavet** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:08 pm

Brillant ale!
Any results/feedback of homebrew try/error? I wish brew this one in a very near future.

Dom

Fuggled Mind · Post by **Fuggled Mind** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:45 pm

djavet wrote:Brillant ale!
Any results/feedback of homebrew try/error? I wish brew this one in a very near future.

Dom

Hi Dom

If you give it a go, why not try Migros Melasse for the sugar syrup.
I've got no idea if it's true but colour wise it seems almost like invert no.2

For everyone in England, Migros Melasse is a supermakerket brand of an inverted cane sugar syrup similar to golden syrup but much darker and more toffee tasting. It is not however, as the name suggests, molasses.

Cheers

Jason

djavet · Post by **djavet** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:58 pm

Great input! I Will give a try.

Dom

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