Hygiene when checking the SG

[Stonch]

Thanks DaaB!

Is the Coopers kit a true IPA, or just a session-strength pale ale?

[delboy]

I had wondered about the diastatic malt as well, i see when they supply to breweries and the like they supply in large containers (not canned) so strictly these wouldn't have to be boiled like cans.
But we homebrewers get it in cans which you would think would need to be boiled.
I did notice that low pH foods like fruits etc get away with pasterusiation and still be legal, i wonder if the diastatic falls into this category in virtue of being low pH and high sugar (both antimicrobial properties).
I'd be willing to bet money that any beer made up with diastaic would'nt have the same sticky problems as the non-diastatic hopped extracts.

[sparky Paul]

Not necessarily, not all LME is pasturised which is why it needs boiling before use. If diastatic LME were heated above 77 deg c it would loose it's diastatic power.

You're right of course - not everything canned has to be sterilised or pasteurised... specifically, anything which has a low pH, as delboy says. The big risk with underprocessed canned goods is Clostridium Botulinum, but this does not like the aforementioned acidic conditions, and also lives primarily on proteins rather than carbohydrates.

Sugar rich products are not at risk from bacterial growth, but are at risk from stray yeasts.

That said, I was specifically thinking about the kit products which seem to have a long shelf life, 2 years plus, and remain unspoiled for many years beyond that. Additionally, the contents of the kit cans are not intended to be further boiled as is diastatic malt extract.

I'm curious now... What's the shelf life of canned diastatic malt extract?

[delboy]

Im not sure i would advice someone to go with an all malt kit anymore, (shame really because some of them are very good esp Great eastern).
It seems to me that a decent 1 can kit in conjunction with a kilo of spray malt is the way to go.
Its works out cheaper too, and the money that is saved could be used to buy a decent yeast like nottingham or safale and maybe even some yeast vit to be belt and braces to ensure a healthy ferment.

[sparky Paul]

Im not sure i would advice someone to go with an all malt kit anymore, (shame really because some of them are very good esp Great eastern).

Isn't it only the Muntons/Woodfordes kits that are causing problems though?

[sparky Paul]

The shelf life on kits is a best before date, old extract can taste dull and soapy (apparently), i'd imagine like treacle and honey it will keep indefinately.

Interesting. They must rely on the sugar content then.

The risk to sugar-rich products are from stray yeasts. Where I worked, we kept bulk sugar in the form of saturated solution (sugar syrup) and it did occasionally get infected with an airborne yeast - a major headache in 50,000 litres of sugar.

[delboy]

Apologies for tarring the other all malt kit manufacturers with the stuck muntons/woodfordes brush, i got a bit carried away with myself, don't want to put anybody of these kits

[sparky Paul]

I suppose the real question is why don't kits from these other manufacturers of all-malt kits seem have these issues?

[sparky Paul]

Either sounds perfectly feasible DaaB, though I'm a little surprised that none of the other manufacturers are making their kits in the same way as Munton's. Something's different though, obviously...

[Stonch]

Forgot to mention - my dad found an old kit from the 80s in his cellar and wants me to try and brew with it!!

[sparky Paul]

(of course the guy on the other forum could have been talking out of his hat).

...or the guy at Muntons.

Interesting though...

[Stonch]

Forgot to mention - my dad found an old kit from the 80s in his cellar and wants me to try and brew with it!!

Why not (I've been told they were pretty good although time may have taken its toll).

I assumed it would be useless, after all these years! He said its Blacksmith's Bitter, which he insists was wonderful stuff.

[Stonch]

Well, I racked brew number two (stout) tonight - it's sitting where the fermenter was in a lovely budget pressure barrel! We managed to get it down to 1015 in the end (target FG being 1010), not too bad

Also whacked a litre in a swing top glass bottle I managed to get my hands on...I'll leave that for a few months before drinking, to see what maturation would have done for it (the barrel will be dry long, long before that!)


We probably won't bother moving it to the pub cellar like last time - was more trouble than it is worth, and as you all pointed out, we were lucky not to aerate the bugger when we moved it! So it won't actually get to cold condition...

[prodigal2]

We probably won't bother moving it to the pub cellar like last time - was more trouble than it is worth, and as you all pointed out, we were lucky not to aerate the bugger when we moved it! So it won't actually get to cold condition...

I have a feeling you would not like "Stonch's Extra Cold Stout"

[Stonch]

Once it's ready - I imagine we will!

Going to try (TRY!) to leave this one alone for at least three weeks before trying, at which point it will have had 11 days primary and 21 days in the barrel... a decent amount of time methink.

I bottled a litre of it to keep back for a couple of months.

So now I'm just waiting for Hop & Grape to deliver my next box of tricks.

Brew three will be the John Bull Bitter kit we got for free with a fermenter and pressure barrel set.

Refinements compared to our first bitter (the Long Arm Brew) will be:

1. Use of campden tablets for the brewing liquor
2. Use of Safale04 yeast, with yeastvit/enzyme on hand in case things get sticky again
3. use of light spray malt as opposed to sugar
4. dry hopping in secondary

Will be interesting to see how much better we can make it... anyone had any experience with John Bull kits?