Sooooooooo Saison

[SamT]

Been considering this as my next number

I've got the Jamil recipe and read through Farmhouse Ales (which tbh confused me a little, as it seems you can chuck almost anything into a saison, Spelt, Rye, Oats etc)

I'm going for a relatively KISS recipe,as it's my first Saison - despite being tempted to spike it with some Rye as I've been enjoying the slightly richer/spicy mouthfeel of the stuff recently)

Was pondering something along the lines of

5kg Bohemian Floor Malted Pilsner (as I've got it in)
500g Munich Malt
500g Wheat Malt

Hops hmmmm want to go to ~40IBU> probably using some combo of the EKG/Northern Brewer/Hallatauer I've got, but I'm really not sure here

Fermented with WLP566 (whic I've got) which I'll start at 20Csh and ramp to 32C over a couple of weeks

Advice? anything obvious that I'm missing?

[seymour]

I would add porridge oats from your kitchen to about 3% of your overall grainbill weight and stick with Jamil's hopping instructions.

One last thought: I brewed a saison along these lines and dumped some orange marmalade in the boil kettle, one of the most popular and highest-rated beers I've made.

[SamT]

I would add porridge oats from your kitchen to about 3% of your overall grainbill weight and stick with Jamil's hopping instructions.

One last thought: I brewed a saison along these lines and dumped some orange marmalade in the boil kettle, one of the most popular and highest-rated beers I've made.

Reckoned you'd be the first to answer seymour ...

Done a Wit and a Winter Warmer with homemade Marmalade in them (one normal, one with rum) they were fairly tidy

Will consider the oats (malted or not? won't it knacker the head retention?) and double check Jamils hopping

[seymour]

No, the oats needn't be malted. In fact, it's their starchy/proteiny nature that improves head retention, lace, and mouthfeel. They'll increase the multi-grain aspects of this historic farmhouse style too.

[Lugsy]

WLP566 is an excellent yeast, I've fermented it cool (20C) and warm (up to 28C) and it copes well anywhere within this range - finishing high gives a few more tasty esters but the FG has always been around 1.006 or lower. You probably don't need to go as high as 32C but I'm no expert and you might get some really interesting stuff going on at that temperature

If you're thinking of rye then why not try flaked rye from a wholefood shop? It'll do the same job as the oats but give you a bit of the rye spiciness, I've used it in a couple of my saisons and it works really well IMHO.

I reckon marmalade would be an excellent addition - I used bitter orange peel in my last one but it's taken a while to calm down, marmalade would be better I think. Or maybe even some Cointreau or Triple Sec at bottling to keep all the aroma in there. I made one with apricots and black pepper that worked out really well although the apricot faded with time.

[orlando]

I have one in the fermentor as I type but I did little to no research on them particularly regarding the yeast and was rather worried at the beginning of the fermentation as it was soooooo sluggish. My first thought was making a starter had in some way introduced a nasty that was out competing the yeast and that I might have a brew finishing around 1.030. I then belatedly did some research and realised that this yeast likes to be warm & toasty (note to self: always ignore the instructions by yeast manufacturers). I now have raised to 22c and it is chugging along nicely but suspect from this thread that I am still fermenting too cool. I am a little conservative with flavour so I set the temp to avoid anything too fruity.

[smdjoachim]

I would add porridge oats from your kitchen to about 3% of your overall grainbill weight and stick with Jamil's hopping instructions.

One last thought: I brewed a saison along these lines and dumped some orange marmalade in the boil kettle, one of the most popular and highest-rated beers I've made.

I wouldn't add oats as they add body and saisons don't need body.
Also add 10% sugar to help lower the final gravity
Mash @ 63

[SamT]

I would add porridge oats from your kitchen to about 3% of your overall grainbill weight and stick with Jamil's hopping instructions.

One last thought: I brewed a saison along these lines and dumped some orange marmalade in the boil kettle, one of the most popular and highest-rated beers I've made.

I wouldn't add oats as they add body and saisons don't need body.
Also add 10% sugar to help lower the final gravity
Mash @ 63

Fair point - I think doing too much reading about the 'use anything to hand' gain policy that 'authentic Saisons seem to have.

Quite a few of the recipes use sugar to dry the beer out - using plain white seems silly though, I'm wondering if there's anything with more character that won't overpower the estery aroma of a decent saison

Never brewed with rye though - I'd think that provides less body tha oats. Ach, maybe next time, Keep this one simple and start playing silly buggers with the next one if this work out

[SamT]

Oh, and can anyone help on temperature profile

From reading around it seems that ramping the temperature is pretty much a must (as quite often is a warm secondary fermentation in the bottle?)

For amost of my brews they sit at a constant temperature in the conditioning fridge for a fortnight. With this saison I'm going to start it off at 20-22C and ramp it to 30-32C over the course of a couple of weeks. But how quickly should I do it?

I don't want to shock the yeast with a big jump in temp, so is bumping it a degree a day a good idea? Does it need a couple of days to 'bed in' at a starting temp? I don't want to leave it too long as it'll run out of fermentables

Any ideas?

[Fuggled Mind]

I brewed a saison along these lines and dumped some orange marmalade in the boil kettle, one of the most popular and highest-rated beers I've made.

I've heard of people using marmalade in their brews before and I'm sure it's not a bad thing (I love the taste of bottled Fullers ESB and that is really marmaladey - though without the marmalade). What sort of marmalade do you use? The really sweet stuff or the bitter one made with Seville oranges?.

The only saison I can buy here with ease is the St-Feuillien Saison. While not as nice as the DuPont offering it's still a thing of beauty and a very drinkable beer. It's also a brew I wouldn't mind trying (and not just because it seems to be a good way to clear out the store cupboard)

Cheers

Jason

[seymour]

I make my own marmalade from freshly-picked bitter oranges (if not Seville exactly, they're very similar) and a lemon or two, but of course it's got sweetness too from all the organic turbinado sugar. My marmalade recipe is based on your Dundee brand in the white jar, if that gives you an idea. So, considering the quantity of inverted sugar therein, adding marmalade would cover most of smdjoachim's 10% sugar as well.

[SamT]

I make my own marmalade from freshly-picked bitter oranges (if not Seville exactly, they're very similar) and a lemon or two, but of course it's got sweetness too from all the organic turbinado sugar. My marmalade recipe is based on your Dundee brand in the white jar, if that gives you an idea. So, considering the quantity of inverted sugar therein, adding marmalade would cover most of smdjoachim's 10% sugar as well.

The lad I occasionally makes his own marmalade every year - it's definely not the sweet kind, comes out almost brown, and it's got such an intense flavour. Hmmm maybe I should split the batch and dose one half of it with marmalade, and keep the other 'straight'

[Jocky]

Love the idea of rye in a saison, I reckon it would go well with the lighter and tangy nature I associate with a saison.

Generally I like adding the body and mouthfeel you can get from oats or other adjuncts, but it doesn't sound right to me in a saison.

[Fuggled Mind]

Love the idea of rye in a saison, I reckon it would go well with the lighter and tangy nature I associate with a saison.

Rye is a nice ingredient. I've used it twice now and I find that in an English summer ale that used 7% of the stuff, it has an almost sherbet-like freshness. It also lends a certain dryness to the finish too. Perhaps in combination with marmelade, it might just work but as I'm still relatively new to AG brewing and haven't quite got the nerve to try it.

Cheers

Jason

[SamT]

Love the idea of rye in a saison, I reckon it would go well with the lighter and tangy nature I associate with a saison.

Rye is a nice ingredient. I've used it twice now and I find that in an English summer ale that used 7% of the stuff, it has an almost sherbet-like freshness. It also lends a certain dryness to the finish too. Perhaps in combination with marmelade, it might just work but as I'm still relatively new to AG brewing and haven't quite got the nerve to try it.

Cheers

Jason

I'd do one or the other tbh, else it might be a bit 'busy'