leffe blonde

[seymour]

Oh I was actually referring to Allecwallace's post...

Ah, I see now. Sorry I jumped down your throat.

...To change the subject slightly though, have you guys had good luck using the various dried yeasts now available? ...Is the dried Belgian and wheat beer yeast good?

I think so, definitely. T-58 is an excellent for Belgians, almost certainly the Chimay strain, and is the Struiss Pannepot house yeast. I've gotten nice Weizen traits from WB-06. Most recently, I've been tickled pink with Mauri Weiss, which is supposedly derived of a German weizen strain, I didn't get as much banana as I wanted, but tons of clove and black pepper the way you prefer. Very, very nice, and vastly exceeding my expectations.

[super_simian]

What temp are you using the Mauri Weiss at seymore? I'm intrigued...

[seymour]

What temp are you using the Mauri Weiss at seymore? I'm intrigued...

I chilled, then pitched the yeast around 72°F/22°C. The temp continued to drop a bit ambiently, but a submersible aquarium heater held it around 65°F/18.3°C.

[ArmChair]

But if you want a more accurate Leffe Blonde clone, use a German wheat yeast such as Mauri Weiss, Safbrew WB-06, Danstar Munich, etc.

THanks for the sound advice guys,

I got this Mauri Weiss yeast to use, just need to get my hops sorted now.

Whats steel cut oats?
are they just the same as porriage oats?

[seymour]

I got this Mauri Weiss yeast to use...

Perfect, my Mauri batch came out vastly more like a Belgian blonde than a German Weizen anyway, which is hopeful for your Leffe clone.

...Whats steel cut oats? are they just the same as porriage oats?

Yes, that's right. Steel-Cut Oats is just another name for Scotch oats, Scottish oats, pin-head oats, etc. They're choppy, chunky whole oats, which I like because they're less highly processed than most grocery store grains, but it doesn't matter. Any oats'll serve the same purpose: flaked, rolled, porridge...whatever they're called and however they're sold in your part of the world. They'll know what to do in your beer.

[super_simian]

What temp are you using the Mauri Weiss at seymore? I'm intrigued...

I chilled, then pitched the yeast around 72°F/22°C. The temp continued to drop a bit ambiently, but a submersible aquarium heater held it around 65°F/18.3°C.

Could I trouble you for OG/FG measurements etc? I'd love to use a local product for my Belgian inspired ales, but I need more info...

[Barley Water]

If you guys all know this just tell me to shut up and go away but you can't handle flaked oats and steel cut oats the same way in a mash. When they make flaked oats they roll the oat kernal flat and when that happens heat is generated and the starches are geletanized so you can add them straight into your mash (for many year I actually thought oats were flat). Steel cut oats on the other hand have not yet been gelatinized and therefore a ceral mash will need to be done to get at the starches for brewing. I have a lot of experience doing ceral mashes on corn grits but I have never messed with oats so I am not sure how long they need to be boiled. If anybody out there has done this, post up and let the rest of us neophytes bask in the glow of your wisdom.

[seymour]

If you guys all know this just tell me to shut up and go away but you can't handle flaked oats and steel cut oats the same way in a mash. When they make flaked oats they roll the oat kernal flat and when that happens heat is generated and the starches are geletanized so you can add them straight into your mash (for many year I actually thought oats were flat). Steel cut oats on the other hand have not yet been gelatinized and therefore a ceral mash will need to be done to get at the starches for brewing. I have a lot of experience doing ceral mashes on corn grits but I have never messed with oats so I am not sure how long they need to be boiled. If anybody out there has done this, post up and let the rest of us neophytes bask in the glow of your wisdom.

Sorry, Barley Water, but that's simply not true (and of course we don't want you to go away!) I use steel-cut oats in almost every beer I make, and they most certainly do convert along with all the other cracked cereal grains, which is exactly what they are. There is absolutely no need to do an additional step. I know oats most likely do not have sufficient enzyme content to convert themselves, but mixed in with barley malt I nonetheless achieve very high efficiencies.

[super_simian]

Very quickly, here is a guide to the gelatinisation temperature of various unmalted grains:

Barley 140-150° F (60-65° C)
Wheat 136-147° F (58-64° C)
Rye 135-158° F (57-70° C)
Oats 127-138° F (53-59° C)
Corn (Maize) 143-165°F (62-74° C)
Rice 154-172° F (68-78° C)

AFAIK if your mash temp exceeds the upper gelatinisation temp of your unmalted adjunct, you're OK. If however the reverse is true, you need to cereal mash. So corn and rice are the obvious two which require a cereal mash, while all the rest are pretty much in line with usual sacc. rest temps. Although rye is a sticky one (pun intended,) as its' range is so wide. I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this 'though, it was just on my mind recently when I could only obtain kibbled rye rather than flaked for my house pale ale...

[zgoda]

All starch will eventually gelatinize in mash, providing enough time. If you want to shorten mash time, you have to do cereal mash, but 90 mins should be fine for both raw barley, wheat, oats, rye, buckwheat or even spelt. None the less, I do cereal mash if raw material is not pre-gelatinized, because I do step mashing German way and gelatinizing during mash would affect fermentability of wort.

The only exception seems to be rice, which starch requires higher temps.

[seymour]

What temp are you using the Mauri Weiss at seymore? I'm intrigued...

I chilled, then pitched the yeast around 72°F/22°C. The temp continued to drop a bit ambiently, but a submersible aquarium heater held it around 65°F/18.3°C.

Could I trouble you for OG/FG measurements etc? I'd love to use a local product for my Belgian inspired ales, but I need more info...

Hello again, super_simian. Here is the beer I keep referencing. If you care to read my brewday post, you'll see it was an intentionally undersized, extremely cheap & dirty, no fuss, batch sparged after-thought which I casually bumped along to each next step while I focused on a different beer at the same time. For that reason, you probably won't want to do exactly as I did, but I can tell you it follows the traditional weissbier regime fairly closely (the process, if not the ingredients, I mean), turned out utterly delicious, and there are barely any bottles left after a short time. I drank two with fish tacos last night, mmmmm. I'll definitely repeat this exercise, possibly experimenting with various unmalted grains.

SEYMOUR MAURI WEISSBIER

A very cheap & easy pseudo-Bavarian wheat beer fermented with Australian yeast, aiming for huge banana flavours (isoamyl acetate ester.)

4 US Gallons = 3.3 Imperial Gallon = 15 Litres

69% = 4.93 lb = 2.24 kg, Unmalted wheat
20% = 1.43 lb = 649 g, German Pilsener Malt
1% = .071 lb = 32 g, German Aciduated Malt
10% = .714 lb = 324 g, Organic Turbinado Cane Sugar (added to boil)

MASH at 122°F/50°C for 1 hour then raise to 150°F/66°C, 3 hours total.

SPARGE at 170°F/77°C to collect 4.75-5 US gallons pre-boil.

BOIL 90 minutes

HOPS:
.8 oz = 23 g, Hallertau, 90 minutes
.5 oz = 14 g, Hallertau, 15 minutes

Chill (or allow to cool ambiently), pitch Mauribrew Weiss yeast (thanks AndyCo!) when it reaches 72°F/22°C.

Use a submersible aquarium heater to hold temperature around 64°F/17.8°C

STATS (assuming 75% mash efficiency and 77% yeast efficiency):
OG: 1.051
FG: 1.011
ABV: 5.25%
IBU: 25
COLOUR: 4°SRM/8°EBC

[Barley Water]

Well it seems I stand corrected. By the way, thanks super_simian I have never seen that layed out so clearly.

[micmacmoc]

Firstly, thanks for this inspiring thread!

I have'nt been able to brew, for various reasons, for about six months. Down to the last bottles of my motueka gold i needed inspiring, well thanks folks! This thread did the trick.
I rushed into doing a mash this morning using what I could remember from these posts, with what was available.
this mash is now on, it'll be late afternoon before I get home to it:

Lager Malt 4000
Wheat Malt 250
Aromatic malt 250

mash temp 64C
I have some saaz, bobek, motueka and cascades. I also have some WB06 yeast.
I also have a big bag of what someone grew in their garden, I think they are first gold, thought they'd be nice at flame out for aroma.
So what would you do for a summery ale?

[seymour]

That's looking really good, micmacmoc!

If I may be so bold, I'd recommend adding 236 g of brown sugar from your kitchen to the boil kettle, which would become 5% of the new total fermentables, such that:

GRAINBILL:
84.5% = 8.8 lbs = 4 kg, Lager Malt
5.3% = .55 lbs = 250 g, Wheat Malt
5.3% = .55 lbs = 250 g, Aromatic Malt
5% = .52 lbs = 236 g, Brown Cane Sugar, added to boil

HOPS:
.53 oz = 15 g, First Gold, 60 min
.88 oz = 25 g, Cascade, 40 min
1.06 oz = 30 g, Saaz, 15 min
1.06 oz = 30 g, First Gold, flame-out

The brown sugar will lighten the body a bit, add the slightest amber tint, some caramelly, juicy fruit flavours, and of course, a slight alcohol bump. WB-06 is a nice yeast choice; it should give you a nice, slightly hazy, slightly peppery, golden summer ale. These hops will add some pleasant citrus and spice too. Assuming normal mash and yeast efficiencies, you should get something along these lines:

OG: 1051
FG: 1012
ABV: 5%
IBU: 33
COLOUR: 10°SRM/20°EBC

[micmacmoc]

Thanks very much, will go with that. I have some 'muscavado' sugar, I'll use that.
I have no idea on the AA of the donated hops but i'll take a flyer on it! Also we have REALLY soft water here, is this something that would benefit from a teaspoon of gypsum in your opinion?
Many Thanks!
stew, mevagissey