WANTED: Your views on my tentative AG kit...

[boniochompio]

Hello again!

Since asking previously for your advice on whether AG is possible for a beginner (and deciding to give it a shot!) I've been reading over these forums, watching videos, reading more websites, scouring boards for answers to questions, noting what i may need, and sourcing some kit.

It's probably a dangerous mindset to be in, but I feel quite "familiar" with the process already, and feel very confident that by the time of my first brew in late July I will at least "know" the process.

As mentioned, I've been sourcing kit and trying to work out exactly what I will need for a successful first brew. I started with a big "wish list" which I gradually modified after comparing prices, reading reviews of the equipment, and working out what was probably unnecessary for my first brew, and have finally (after 6 cycles!) got a kit that I think might be close to satisfactory.

So, without further ado, this is my tentative kit. I've arranged it by process, and would really appreciate your thoughts or comments.

----------WATER PREP AND HLT----------
Salifert Carbonate Hardness / Alkalinity Test Kit
Carbon Reducing Solution (CRS) (1 litre)
30L brewfirm bucket with tap for HLT

----------MLT AND SPARGE----------
Deluxe insulated mash tun
Mash tun sparge arm (tubing included)

----------HOP BOILING & CHILLING----------
Stainless steel pan 40L (with tap, FB, for induction hob)
Thermometer for pan
Wort chiller
Protofloc tablets

----------FERMENTING----------
23 litre PET carboy
Stick on LCD thermometer
Airlock
Bung

----------SYPHONING AND PRIMING----------
Fermtech auto syphon (tubing included)
Fermtech syphon clamp
Auto bottle filler
Tubing for bottle filler
***HLT doubles as priming bucket***

----------SANITATION AND TESTING----------
Starsan 16oz
ph test strips x100
Hydrometer
Plastic hydrometer jar
Iodine
***HLT doubles as sanitation bucket during racking***

----------GENERAL EQUIPMENT----------
Long plastic spoon (16”)
Big funnel
Big plastic jug (3 litre)
muslin hop bag (x10)
Digital thermometer


Any opinions or comments on what I'm thinking of buying for my first ever set up would be most appreciated.

(As price is always a factor, it is probably worth mentioning that I'm hoping to get the MLT kit for a birthday present (if I'm good), and the total price for the rest comes to a little over £300)

[themadhippy]

30L brewfirm bucket with tap for HLT

how are you going to heat the water?

[boniochompio]

I was thinking of using the brew kettle to heat the water on induction hob, fill the HLT with the heated water, then put the now empty brew kettle under the MLT to run the wort in to, and finally put it back on the hob for the hop boil

[guypettigrew]

Howdy boniochompio

You've been working hatd. Nice selection of kit!

Good to see you've gone for a huge plastic spoon. Otherwise it's difficult to stir the grains into the hot mash liquor.

Have you had your Japanese water tested? The use of CRS may well be the way to go, or it may not. As you're not planning on brewing for some months yet I'd recommend sending some water to Murphy and sons for testing. Goodness only knows what it would cost to send 500ml of water from Japan to the UK but, once it's done, it's done.

Why are you bottling and not kegging? I got fed up with cleaning and sterilising and capping bottles years ago. Drop it into a keg and then draw off as much (or as little) as you like to drink. Also takes up less space.

Guy

[Dave S]

----------FERMENTING----------
23 litre PET carboy

If you're going to be brewing 23 l batches, I'd go for a 30 l bucket so you don't get any overflows from vigorous ferments. But otherwise that'll certainly get you going.

[Andy]

Your proposal does involve moving around large quantities of very hot water/wort. Obviously this has potential risks so be very careful and wear appropriate clothing etc.

[boniochompio]

Guy:
I'm actually waiting until I get back to the UK in late July to brew, so will be using beautiful Hertfordshire 320mg/l CaCO3 water, hence the CRS and water treatment! I originally thought about using tesco water, but figure ultimately testing and treating my own water would be the most beneficial. All grain brewing in Japan would almost definitely be so ridiculously expensive as to bankrupt me.
As far as bottling goes, I'm investing in the kit for it partly because I'd really like to design my own labels etc, but also because I love the convenience of grabbing a bottle and taking it to the allotment or to a friends house, and I'd like to gift a few bottles too. Of course, I imagine after some time I'll get fed up with bottling and move to kegging too, but initially it will be a big part of my "first ever batch" experience.

Dave:
Thanks very much for this info. I was hoping to do roughly 20 litre batches, and had read that the carboys were better than buckets in terms of sealing (and also they look brill). Do you really think I'm taking too big a risk with a 23L carboy? And if so, what kind of batch size do you think I could realistically get in there?

Andy:
Safety first as always. Luckily, I can brew in my kitchen, so the moving will be between very small distances (literally picking up the container and turning to the left or right).

[sweatysock]

You could double up the boiler as hlt. Makes it easier to control sparge temperature as you will need to control the water temperature throughout. If you batch sparge you do not need to be tweaking valves to balance the flow. I started fly sparging, but moved to batch after recommendations on here. It is much easier and you can control the grain bed temp very easily. Happy brewing when you get going. Also, for the price you pay for your mash tun, I would get a Coleman xtreme. It is a lot bigger and even though you say you only want brew more. It takes as long to brew 50ltrs as it does 20!

[Rick_UK]

Looks like some meticulous planning to me - unlike my winging it free form jazz approach!

My advice advice based on my experience would be as follows:
- Get a 50l boiler and a keg then you can make enough beer to fill a keg and bottle quite a few for the reasons you give.
- Think about fermentation temp control - my aquarium heater works great as I brew in the garage where it is nearly always well below fermentation temps. A brew fridge is the ultimate solution but only essential if you want to brew lagers or lives in a hot country.
- You don't really need a dedicated hlt but if you do and are brewing on yr hob get another steel / alu pot with a tap.
- Decent large hop bags are better and less hassle than hop strainers IMHO.
- Use the water treatment calculator!

Rick

[boniochompio]

Sweaty:
Thanks very much for this info. The MLT I'm looking at is 45L, so not far off. Your suggestion of doubling the BK as HLT sounds like a great idea, as I could leave the BK on the hob during sparging (no lifting!) and keep constant control of the sparge water temperature, and by extension hopefully allow some control over MLT temp too. The plastic bucket I was originally thinking of using for HLT has litre/gallon gradients on its side, so if I run the wort in to this instead it would be easier to keep an eye on the volume too. Does this sound like a better solution to you?

Rick:
I'd love to go for the free form jazz approach, but I'd probably be less like Miles Davis and more like DJ Bob Hoskins going mental in a dustbin.
Starting with a 50L boiler does sound tempting, but as I'm using an induction hob they're a bit of a pain to come across. Providing I take to brewing how I think I will, I'll be saving my pocket money with a view to kegging at the start of next year, at which time my first BK will be promoted to dedicated HLT.
I live in Herts, and am planning to ferment my first few batches in an upstairs cupboard in a room that never has the radiator turned on. I will of course monitor the temperature of the cupboard beforehand though.
Regarding hop bags, is there any downside to them? They seem like such a perfect and convenient solution that I feel like there has to be a catch...

[orlando]

----------WATER PREP AND HLT----------
Salifert Carbonate Hardness / Alkalinity Test Kit
Carbon Reducing Solution (CRS) (1 litre)
30L brewfirm bucket with tap for HLT

Send a sample to Murphy & Son. It says on the website 500ml but I was actually there when mine was done and Paul used less than 100ml so send no more than that.

----------MLT AND SPARGE----------
Deluxe insulated mash tun
Mash tun sparge arm (tubing included)

45 litre one is perfect sounds like the Igloo one to me, if so good choice.

----------HOP BOILING & CHILLING----------
Stainless steel pan 40L (with tap, FB, for induction hob)
Thermometer for pan
Wort chiller
Protofloc tablets

Check your pan can be used on a induction hob, I have one and unless a magnet sticks to it it won't work, I would also be careful about what weight it can take. Have a word with manufacturer. Get hold of protafloc granules from the Homebrew Shop, a lot easier to use than tablets. Go for a plate chiller if budget allows.

----------FERMENTING----------
23 litre PET carboy
Stick on LCD thermometer
Airlock
Bung

FV is too small. Go for these they are perfect and will fit in your inevitable brew fridge

----------SYPHONING AND PRIMING----------
Fermtech auto syphon (tubing included)
Fermtech syphon clamp
Auto bottle filler
Tubing for bottle filler
***HLT doubles as priming bucket***

Bottling tree and a sanitiser to squirt fluid into your bottles that sits on top of it is a fantastic help when bottling. Get some resealable plastic caps and a hand sprayer for starsan. Rinse bottle after pouring beer, spray with starsan, cap then refill. Saves an enourmous amount of time.

----------SANITATION AND TESTING----------
Starsan 16oz
ph test strips x100
Hydrometer
Plastic hydrometer jar
Iodine
***HLT doubles as sanitation bucket during racking***

Spray bottle mentioned above, I would get two, one for using in the brewery, one to sit by the sink along with a bottle brush, which isn't on your list.

----------GENERAL EQUIPMENT----------
Long plastic spoon (16”)
Big funnel
Big plastic jug (3 litre)
muslin hop bag (x10)
Digital thermometer

Plastic containers for hops, fluids, yeast samples etc, you will be amazed at how much of this sort of thing you need. Get a good set of digital scales for weighing grain and some small gram scales for hops. When it comes to measuring devices get the best you can afford, trust me this is not just an investment it is crucial to consistent brewing. Calibratable devices preferred.

Any opinions or comments on what I'm thinking of buying for my first ever set up would be most appreciated.

(As price is always a factor, it is probably worth mentioning that I'm hoping to get the MLT kit for a birthday present (if I'm good), and the total price for the rest comes to a little over £300)

I would go for a separate HLT every time.

Patience, the most important thing in the least amount of supply

[boniochompio]

Thanks Orlando,

In light of your comments, I've decided to use the 33L bucket as my fermentation vessel (will give it a good clean during the hop boil). As you mentioned you have an induction, do you brew on it? And if so, how well does it work? It seems to me like induction is perfect for brewing due to the speed with which you can achieve and maintain a rolling boil, hopefully I'm not wrong!

I've made a lot of changes to my list based on everyone's replies so far. Bottling is out (except for 16 swing top bottles) and kegging is in! I'm getting my head around Corneys at the moment and am very excited about the idea. It definitely sounds better, and the potential to whack them in a kegerator is a huge pull.

I've also considered my brew volumes, and with an 18l corney keg, plus 18 500ml swing top bottles, I will have 27l of space available (5.9 gallons), so if I aimed for five gallons of wort (and purely hypothetically had 0% loss) I would have around 4.3 litres of dead space in the corny keg. Which I think would be enough for the CO2, especially considering I will certainly come up under a full five gallons.

I'm still refining the plans, so any advice on corney kegs would be very appreciated!

[orlando]

Thanks Orlando,

In light of your comments, I've decided to use the 33L bucket as my fermentation vessel (will give it a good clean during the hop boil). As you mentioned you have an induction, do you brew on it? And if so, how well does it work? It seems to me like induction is perfect for brewing due to the speed with which you can achieve and maintain a rolling boil, hopefully I'm not wrong!

No I don't mainly for the reasons already given. I have a cellar in which I brew and so electric is the heat source.

I've made a lot of changes to my list based on everyone's replies so far. Bottling is out (except for 16 swing top bottles) and kegging is in! I'm getting my head around Corneys at the moment and am very excited about the idea. It definitely sounds better, and the potential to whack them in a kegerator is a huge pull.

I've also considered my brew volumes, and with an 18l corney keg, plus 18 500ml swing top bottles, I will have 27l of space available (5.9 gallons), so if I aimed for five gallons of wort (and purely hypothetically had 0% loss) I would have around 4.3 litres of dead space in the corny keg. Which I think would be enough for the CO2, especially considering I will certainly come up under a full five gallons.

I'm still refining the plans, so any advice on corney kegs would be very appreciated!

Don't understand your maths there, I would fill the corney and put the rest in bottles, no dead space.

I've just been through all this and decided to get the 23 litre versions at the Home Brew Shop, they will have more in from May so suits your timing, could be a big issue for your budget though as a 4 keg set up including all the rest you'll need is getting you over £500. A decent fridge or freezer could be anywhere from free (Freecycle) to £400 quid for a new big chest freezer Second hand 18/19 litre corneys are getting rarer and consequently the price is getting really silly and of course you can't be completely sure about what your getting, hence the new bigger version for me.

[boniochompio]

Yeah, my calculations were a bit thick actually, I had prioritised bottles first, then keg, i blame verboden vrucht.

As for budget, going straight down the corney route justifies the extra cost for me. I have tentatively replaced bottling equipment with the 2x corney and fittings kit from brewuk, which took my total (minus MLT + sparge arm) to £588. But £276 does seem a bit pricey for their kit, so I'm hoping I can get the set up for less than this!

Ideally I'd like to go down the second hand corney route and keep costs low(er), so will be looking for second hand ones and also checking out the ones you linked to, as well as all the extras they require.

A lot to think about, but definitely a set up I feel more comfortable with in terms of building towards a full home bar. As for fridges, we have an old one in the shed that's never used, so will at last have a purpose until the inevitable kegerator day comes.

[orlando]

Yeah, my calculations were a bit thick actually, I had prioritised bottles first, then keg, i blame verboden vrucht.

As for budget, going straight down the corney route justifies the extra cost for me. I have tentatively replaced bottling equipment with the 2x corney and fittings kit from brewuk, which took my total (minus MLT + sparge arm) to £588. But £276 does seem a bit pricey for their kit, so I'm hoping I can get the set up for less than this!

Ideally I'd like to go down the second hand corney route and keep costs low(er), so will be looking for second hand ones and also checking out the ones you linked to, as well as all the extras they require.

A lot to think about, but definitely a set up I feel more comfortable with in terms of building towards a full home bar. As for fridges, we have an old one in the shed that's never used, so will at last have a purpose until the inevitable kegerator day comes.

You can get a 2 keg set up for quite a bit less than that if you choose the 19 litre route.

If you are going to make maximum use of a fridge I would use it as a fermentation fridge. You only need to get your self one of these, or if you are that way inclined build your own. I use one from there and I also use it to control my HLT temperatures as well. Add a 60 watt tube heater from Tool Station and your done. Most of the brewers will tell you fermentation control is one of the single most important elements of brewing good beer. I use the same fridge for putting a stir plate in and incubating yeast slants (long story for a bit later in your journey), so it really can work for its living.