Phasing out pale malt?

[Kev888]

Having widened my range of recipies over the last year or two (and being restricted on when I can take delivery of heavy stuff), there are times when I start becoming overwhelmed by sacks of grain.

But I'm thinking probably I could reduce the biggest offender by stocking just lager malt instead of both that and pale malt, and maybe add a small amount of something darker/toastier where I would normally have used pale malt. I'm not usually interested in closely emulating other brews, just making beer thats good in its own right, so exact authenticity isn't really a problem provided the alternative actually works well.

Does this sound plausible, and if so what would your choice of the 'something darker' suppliment be for recipies normally using pale malt?

Cheers
Kev

[Morten]

I've gone directly the other way and use pale malt as my base malt for 95% of my beers (also pale lagers)

It works fine.

I went with pale malt because I am very receptive of SMM/DMS.

[jmc]

Having widened my range of recipies over the last year or two (and being restricted on when I can take delivery of heavy stuff), there are times when I start becoming overwhelmed by sacks of grain.

But I'm thinking probably I could reduce the biggest offender by stocking just lager malt instead of both that and pale malt, and maybe add a small amount of something darker/toastier where I would normally have used pale malt. I'm not usually interested in closely emulating other brews, just making beer thats good in its own right, so exact authenticity isn't really a problem provided the alternative actually works well.

Does this sound plausible, and if so what would your choice of the 'something darker' suppliment be for recipies normally using pale malt?

Cheers
Kev

I moved to a UK (Crisp) lager malt only recently as I mainly brew blonde ales and wheat beers.
I do a minimum 75 min boil and not noticed (or worried) about DMS.

For UK ales I'll probably need to up crystal and for Belgian darker ales a bit more Special B.

Like you say it wont be identicle, but its good beer.

[Kev888]

Interesting, thanks. I'm not sensitive to DMS myself but its a useful point as it means I've not considered the technical differences enough, had only thought as far as taste and colour. For instance I seem to recall that lager malt may keep slightly less well, partly because its less dry, which could be an issue for me with my annual/bi-annual orders.

Hmm.. I guess i could indeed do it the other way around, and most brews i make are British styles whilst the only really light ones I make are wheat beers so less than 40% lager malt anyway. Seemed to make more sense to add to the lightest base when necessary, but that may not be the most suitable most often.

Maybe extra crystal would be the thing were I to go with lager malt - I've started using less crystal because following aleman's suggestion I experimented and found that it was behind some of the more astringent/harsh flavours I don't like when used more heavily, but as a small addition I see no problems.

Cheers
Kev

[Morten]

Lager/pilsner malt is not a bad choise, but I would recomend a good, vigerous boil for at least 75 minutes as jmc states.

[far9410]

Are brews using lager malt more prone to dms than pale malt?

[Morten]

Are brews using lager malt more prone to dms than pale malt?

Yes.

There is more SMM in the pilsner/lager malt. This converts to DMS during mash and is boiled off.

For styles where you want some DMS (German lagers) you need to use an appropriate malt because the level of SMM is greatly reduced in pale malt.

But if you do not want DMS just boil vigerously for at least 60-70 minutes.

[Kev888]

Yes, I believe so - it has more SMM, which gives rise to DMS via heat. I sort of knew this but hadn't really noticed any difference myself so have largely ignored it until now, perhaps because I always boil for 90mins. IIRC although DMS is very volatile and gets driven off easily, it takes time for SMM to be converted into DMS and that continues converting in the boiler before it can be driven off.

All I can say is that some of my lighter ales use a high percentage of lager malt to pale malt, and I personally haven't noticed any particular increase in DMS that I can recognise as such, but maybe I'm not very sensitive to it.

EDIT: beaten to it

Cheers
Kev

[far9410]

Ok chaps, and does DMS give a bitter/off background taste, if not how is it detected?

[zgoda]

Vegetal aromas - canned corn, boiled vegetables.

But with current malting technology the most probable source for dms in home brewed beers is bacterial infection. It sometimes smells like celery. If you buy grains from good source, you might obtain detailed spec for your batch of malt. I've checked Weyermann's, Steinbach, Best Malz, Danish Malting and Soufflet, both report for their pilsner smm levels same or comparable to pale or Vienna malts.

Anyway, vigorous boil for at least 60 mins is always a Good Thing (TM).

[Morten]

Ok chaps, and does DMS give a bitter/off background taste, if not how is it detected?

Nope.

DMS smelles like cooked vegetables.

[far9410]

Ok chaps, and does DMS give a bitter/off background taste, if not how is it detected?

Nope.

DMS smelles like cooked vegetables.

Sounds (or rather tastes) Like ive got another problem then!

[jmc]

Ok chaps, and does DMS give a bitter/off background taste, if not how is it detected?

Nope.

DMS smelles like cooked vegetables.

Sounds (or rather tastes) Like ive got another problem then!

far9410- How long do you boil for & do you take the lid off your boiler?

[far9410]

If boil time is my problem then it's probably down to my 27lburco boiler , I have to add wort late thro boil. Hopefully this will all be fixed now that my new 50l keg boiler is almost ready!

[Kev888]

Adding wort late, or some sort of infection, would be my best guess for DMS-type tastes too; sounds like you have almost solved the former already, but if you have to use the small boiler again and suspect topping up with wort could be a cause, then I'd consider making a higher gravity smaller volume of wort and topping up with just water instead - though probably taking a slight hit in efficiency.

I know this flies against much opinion, but I routinely boil (for 90mins) with the lid cracked open only about an inch - and my beer is noticeably better for it; perhaps because with the lid fully off, the boil vigour is mediocre. My understanding is that DMS itself is quite volatile and just won't condense on the hot lid heated by the steam (unlike the water vapour), so provided theres a 'reasonable' way for DMS to escape then it will anyway, however the process of converting SMM to DMS to begin with carries on in the boiler and is aided by longer, hot boils - as also is the hot break.

Cheers
kev