Farmhouse Saison

[dean_wales]

Hi guys,

Looking for some input from other experiental brewers out there on the following recipe. Particularily looking for advice on hopping, new to step mashes and the spicing etc.

I want to use as much unmalted flaked barley in this brew as I can as I think its a very farmhousey ingredient. But it is also free to me, which helps subsidise the yeast cost:

Grainbill:
Pilsner malt 50%
Flaked barley 30%
Flaked rye 10% (would it be better or worse to use malted rye and/or crystal rye?)
Candi sugar 6%
Acidulated Malt 4%

Hops:
Aramis or Bobek (Styrian Goldings) or Saaz to 30IBU weighted towards more late additons. I have the Bobek but dont mind buying another from TMM.

Mash:
Step infusion mashes providing I have room. Steps at...
40c Glucan rest
50c Protein rest
63c Saccharification
78c Mash out

Fermentation
I will use either WLP565 or 566 and ferment warm, say 25c??

Other:
Grains of Paradise added at 10g per 5 Gallons.
May do double brewlength and hit half with apricots a-la-other JBK members.

Thanks,

Dean.

[zgoda]

Flaked rye doesn't cause stuck sparges, so better stay away from rye malt.

[richc]

I really wouldn't bother with the step mash, especially the mash out, you want absolute maximum conversion and with modern grains 90 minutes at 63c should do it.

If you can ramp the fermentation temperature from 20-28 over the fermentation then that may help keep the fermentation going.

[seymour]

On the other hand, I use a traditional DeClerk Belgian step mash for Saison in order to fully convert so much unmalted grain. The grains of paradise will probably be nice, but as far as I know, true Saisons are seldom spiced. The peppery flavors come from a combination of rye or other grains, Saaz or other German noble type hops, and Belgian yeast phenols from relatively warm fermentation temps. Best of luck!

[dean_wales]

Given the proposed grainbill which is more important the 40c step or 50c step?

[seymour]

Given the proposed grainbill which is more important the 40c step or 50c step?

When brewing Belgian ales, I do a full-blown, classic multi-step mash with tremendous results. Don't believe all this stuff about modern highly modified malts. As soon as you introduce caramelized or unmalted grains, that theory goes out the window.

Yes, this is entirely do-able even with a humble plastic picnic cooler. Fear not, it's not as difficult as it sounds. Take notes the first time, make necessary adjustments, and you'll know your equipment better next time so it becomes routine. Don't sweat it if you don't nail your targets each time, this will still produce a vastly improved efficiency compared to a single-temp mash:

multi-step decoction/infusion mash schedule:

add 2.5 US Gal/2.1 Imperial Gal of 132°F/55.6°C water to reach:
STEP 1 113-122°F/45-50°C, hold 30 min

drain, add some water to heat 3.5 US Gal/2.9 Imperial Gal to 150°F/65.6°C, pour back in to reach:
STEP 2 140-146°F/60-63°C, hold 30-40 min

drain, heat 3.5 US Gal/2.9 Imperial Gal to 163°F/72.8°C, pour back in to reach:
STEP 3 158-162°F/70-72°C, hold 30-40 min

drain, raise 3.5 US Gal/2.9 Imperial Gal to 169°F/76°C, pour back in to reach:
STEP 4 167°F/75°C, hold 10-15 min, sparge w 170°F/76.7°C water

[dean_wales]

Wow thanks Seymour,

A couple of questions if I may.

What is the specific purpose of each of those rests?
Do you treat the whole grain bill to the whole schedule or just the unmalted grains to begin with?
Is there a min/max grain to water ratio I should adhere to at the very beginnings and end of steps?

Shame that Beersmith doesn't have an inbuilt set of mash schedules for more complex infusion mashes.

Dean.

[seymour]

A couple of questions if I may.

What is the specific purpose of each of those rests?

Loosely speaking:
Step 1 = Peptidase and Protease enzymes are most active, breaking down hazy proteins
Step 2 = Beta Amylase enzyme rest, producing maltose
Step 3 = Alpha Amylase enzyme rest, converting many more carbohydrates into additional (less-fermentable) sugars
Step 4 = increases the temp higher than most enzymes can stand, ending most conversion and preparing the grainbed to release its sugars with the final flush of hotter water

See also: http://howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-1.html and Brew Like a Monk by Stan Hieronymous

...Do you treat the whole grain bill to the whole schedule or just the unmalted grains to begin with?...

Yes, everything I described is applied to the entire grainbill inside your mash tun. One vessel, one timeline, one mash process. I never do these separate split cereal mashes that people talk about. Obviously Anheuser Busch has built quite a business around this practice, with their unfathomably huge rice cookers, but I typically try not to mimic them. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I believe if you slowly work your way through the temperatures as the Belgian brewers do, the enzymes from your mashed barley will help convert all the other cereal grains as well. Just stir all your grain together, add some hot water, it knows what to do from there.

...Is there a min/max grain to water ratio I should adhere to at the very beginnings and end of steps?

Good question. I don't know exactly, that's something you may want to research a bit, and you may already know what works best on your system.

I described quantities for a fairly typical batch size: 6-7 US Gal/5-6 Imperial Gal/22.7-26.5 L calling for about 11 lbs/5 kg grain, give or take. My Belgian ales usually include a pound or two of brown sugar or invert syrup, but that's added to the boil kettle and left out of these weight calculations.

[zgoda]

Small correction only, a-amylase produces mainly unfermentable dextrins, the fermentable sugars production is marginal. Anyway, breaking long chains is required for b-amylase to work, as it is able to cut only in specific places of sugar chains.

[seymour]

Small correction only, a-amylase produces mainly unfermentable dextrins, the fermentable sugars production is marginal. Anyway, breaking long chains is required for b-amylase to work, as it is able to cut only in specific places of sugar chains.

Good point as always, zgoda. I edited my terminology.