Pilsner Urquell - 28.5.07

[Frothy]

The definitive Czech pilsener. From CAMRA Brew Classic Euro beers.

23L 1.048 (80% eff') 40EBU
4.67kg Lager Malt (pilsen)
0.245kg Carapils

90minutes - 70g Saaz
45minutes - 35g Saaz
15minutes - 15g Saaz
15minutes - 5g Irish moss

Saflager S53 11g
Primary - 11-13oc ~2 weeks
Secondary - 2-4oc ~4 weeks

The recipe calls for pilsner malt and a 4x stepped mash. I'm using British Lager Malt (presumably marris otter) and will be using a single infusion @ ~65oc for 90minutes. I'll be doing my first double batch so fingers crossed it all fitts in the cool box.

Frothy

[prodigal2]

Keep us informed Frothy, it sounds a great recipe.

My pale malt locally is pilsner so it may be a good recipe to do in the Autumn.

[steve_flack]

You can fake the effect of a decoction mash with a little bit of melanoidin malt.

[Vossy1]

Hows it going Frothy

[prodigal2]

You can fake the effect of a decoction mash with a little bit of melanoidin malt.

2 questions from the newbie AG contingent:

A) what does a decoction mash give to the beer and the wort?

B) How does melanoidin malt give you the same effect?

[UserDeleted]

Classically the decoction mash removes excessive protien from the poor quality malts (Technically) used for pilsner brewing. What it does in to encourage an increase in the formation of melanoidins, browning compounds formed from reactions between sugar and amino acids. These reactions take place during the cooking of most foods and provide ehnanced falvourings.

In the case of brewing the melanoidins provide a bigger malt profile desirable (essential!!) in a Bohemian Pilsner, oddly enough melanoidin malt provides a high level of melanoidins without the necessity of a decoction mash. In theory it is possibly to also simulate a decoction brewed beer by boiling the wort to have a evaporation rate of around 20% an hour. The high thermal loading encourages the formation of melanoidins. Munich malt has a higher amount of melanoidins than standard pilsner malt. If you are going to use melanoidin then keep it to less than 5% especially if you are using other melanoidin rich malts.


If the malt is Munton's, then it will be the variety "Alexis" which is fully modified and can be infusion mashed like pale malt.

If I was brewing that, given the quality of the hops we get in the UK, I would double or even triple the late hops!

[Garth]

Have you started Frothy? or are you done and dusted

[prodigal2]

Classically the decoction mash removes excessive protien from the poor quality malts (Technically) used for pilsner brewing. What it does in to encourage an increase in the formation of melanoidins, browning compounds formed from reactions between sugar and amino acids. These reactions take place during the cooking of most foods and provide ehnanced falvourings.

In the case of brewing the melanoidins provide a bigger malt profile desirable (essential!!) in a Bohemian Pilsner, oddly enough melanoidin malt provides a high level of melanoidins without the necessity of a decoction mash. In theory it is possibly to also simulate a decoction brewed beer by boiling the wort to have a evaporation rate of around 20% an hour. The high thermal loading encourages the formation of melanoidins. Munich malt has a higher amount of melanoidins than standard pilsner malt. If you are going to use melanoidin then keep it to less than 5% especially if you are using other melanoidin rich malts.


If the malt is Munton's, then it will be the variety "Alexis" which is fully modified and can be infusion mashed like pale malt.

If I was brewing that, given the quality of the hops we get in the UK, I would double or even triple the late hops!

Cheers UserDeleted that was the answer I was looking for, and I hoped you would chime in due to your industry side knowledge.

Thanks thats the type of knowledge that if DaaB or the admins should be put in the knowledge base.

[Frothy]

Brew postponed due to horrible weather The brew-shed is currently suffering from a leaky roof and is flooding. I can't even bring myself to take the sack of lager malt out of the car yet for fear of getting it damp.

Double or even tripple the late hops? This is already a lot more hops than I would normally use but thanks for the advice UserDeleted most of my beers I find to be very low on hop flavour bitterness and aroma - it's something that I'm still scratching my head over as I've been over my procedure and different recipies so many times - it must be down to the hops. I may try some melanodin malt but with my 8.5kw burner I often get losses in boil volume up to 30%.

Frothy

[mysterio]

Double or even tripple the late hops?

I think this is a good idea too, I only started getting hop aroma & flavour when I started loading on the late hops.

[prodigal2]

Sorry DaaB you sometimes talk about archiving stuff and I had typo dyslexia this morning.

[SteveD]

I posted to this effect on DRB's hop head yes/no thread, but you need to crank up the late additions. Try bunging in an ounce or two late, but don't boil any longer than 5 mins. Bung in another ounce or two on switch off, and you could dry hop with half to one ounce as well.

That will sort you out, no problem

[Frothy]

Thanks SD. What has really had me scratching my head is that I've been trying lots of different recipies and most of them I'm sure are tried and tested but still don't give me good results in the hop department. I've moved to foil wrapped frozen hops & recently neglected hop bags in favour of loose hops in the boil. Should I simply disregard the IBU calc's and concentrate more on the quantity of hops, should I be allowing for a % reduction in AA when calculating IBU's?

Frothy

[SteveD]

Thanks SD. What has really had me scratching my head is that I've been trying lots of different recipies and most of them I'm sure are tried and tested but still don't give me good results in the hop department. I've moved to foil wrapped frozen hops & recently neglected hop bags in favour of loose hops in the boil. Should I simply disregard the IBU calc's and concentrate more on the quantity of hops, should I be allowing for a % reduction in AA when calculating IBU's?

Frothy

IBU calcs are an approximation at best because you don't actually know how bitter the hops really are, or what utilisation you get. Your palate is the best judge, so modify the recipe to get what you want....then, next time, the same hops have a different a-acid value, and it's back to the drawing board!

Morris Hanbury gold foil packs are pretty good, and keep them in the freezer. Boiling loose is better than in a bag. Late and aroma additions, ie, last 5 mins of the boil , steep, and dry hops, don't really impact on bitterness, so you can be fairly heavy handed.

[deadlydes]

sounds like your having an extremely vigorous boil i.e. evaporating 30%.
I dont know but perhaps you are boiling off all/most of your hop flavour and or aroma. try turning down the boiler a bit.

BTW whats your brew length? just that i am thinking about one of those 8kw burners for 60l brews.
cheers