Water profile for American IPA - any suggestions?

[chastuck]

Anyone got some good suggestions for a water profile for an American IPA? I was thinking of using the one for 'Pale Ale' in Bru'n Water described as "for hoppy beers", viz:
Ca 140
Mg 18
Na 25
SO4 300
Cl 55
HCO3 110
Ca+ 9.6
An- 9.6
Total hardness 424
Alkalinity 91
RA -20
SO4/Cl ratio 5.5

I was using Murphy's methods of CRS and DWB, but I've just bought some phosphoric acid acid, so intend using Bru'n Water for the first time to adjust my Thames Water supply.

[WallyBrew]

If you want that profile from your TWA source then phosphoric is not the acid of choice. Sulphuric is.

Reducing your alkalinity (about 220 as CaCO3) to 90 using sulphuric will add about 120mg/L of sulphate. Your calcium will remain at 100 so you need another 40 which by using gypsum will add another 96mg/L of sulphate.

Hence you will have

140 Ca
about 265 sulphate
55 chloride (thats about whats in TWA water)
sodium in TWA is about 20 to 30
Mg 4

If you really want to increase this to 18 then 14 Mg from epsom salts will add 56mg/L more of sulphate taking the sulphate to just over 300

[chastuck]

If you want that profile from your TWA source then phosphoric is not the acid of choice. Sulphuric is.

Reducing your alkalinity (about 220 as CaCO3) to 90 using sulphuric will add about 120mg/L of sulphate. Your calcium will remain at 100 so you need another 40 which by using gypsum will add another 96mg/L of sulphate.

Hence you will have

140 Ca
about 265 sulphate
55 chloride (thats about whats in TWA water)
sodium in TWA is about 20 to 30
Mg 4

If you really want to increase this to 18 then 14 Mg from epsom salts will add 56mg/L more of sulphate taking the sulphate to just over 300

Thanks for this. Any suggestions where food grade Sulphuric acid can be bought? Web searches don't throw up any home-brew type suppliers.

[WallyBrew]

How much do you need?

food grade acid

Not really sure what strength this is as the m/V and m/m seem to be back to front in this document

The price of this indicates that it is not prepared from analytical grade acid.

It states compliance with FCC IV but FCC VIII has been out for some time, if you've got a few bob to spare you can get your own copy here

It's a really riveting read

[chastuck]

How much do you need?

food grade acid

Not really sure what strength this is as the m/V and m/m seem to be back to front in this document

The price of this indicates that it is not prepared from analytical grade acid.

It states compliance with FCC IV but FCC VIII has been out for some time, if you've got a few bob to spare you can get your own copy here

It's a really riveting read

Wow! Dear prices. 25 litres I don't need! I was looking more for 1 litre or so.

[Matt12398]

I used the Bru'n Water IPA profile and it was the perfect choice in my opinion. Nice lasting hop zing that had been lacking from my other brews. Alternatively Randy Mosher's perfect pale ale profile can be found be googling and gets good reports.

[mabrungard]

I'm with Neil on preferring sulfuric acid over phosphoric acid for this profile. The sulfate is welcome here and reduction in the calcium content due to NOT adding so much gypsum is not detrimental to brewing. There is plenty of calcium already.

Please remember that the bicarbonate content in the profile is a 'first guess' and its not a requirement. The brewer should alter that bicarbonate level in order to produce the mash pH desired. Along with the varying bicarbonate, the calcium content can be varied as needed by the mineral and acid additions.

I do recommend including the Mg in the water since it helps add to the sour and bittering perceptions in this hoppy and bitter finished beer. Mg is not really desired or required in non-hoppy beers where bitterness is not the focus.

[mark4newman]

Hi Martin

Sorry to jump into this thread, however I came across a thread where you were going to try AJs water treatment for a pale ale. Ie low levels of salt additions on ro water.

Could you let me know what your conclusions were.


Thx

Mark

[mabrungard]

Hi Martin

Sorry to jump into this thread, however I came across a thread where you were going to try AJs water treatment for a pale ale. Ie low levels of salt additions on ro water.

Could you let me know what your conclusions were.


Thx

Mark

Yes, I was just enjoying that beer at one of my homebrew club meetings this week. This was a SNPA clone that I've made many times prior. The previous editions used the Pale Ale profile in Bru'n Water. However in this edition, I wanted to evaluate AJ Delange's advice that a good pale ale can be made with low sulfate. So I reduced the gypsum additions so that the sulfate level was reduced from 300 ppm to 100 ppm. Of course, that reduced the calcium too, but all other ion concentrations were kept as in the Pale Ale profile.

The mash and ferment were fine. The beer had no obvious faults. It is a fine beer...however it does not have the level of drying and the 'pop' that I expect a hoppy pale ale to have. My preference is for the more assertive sulfate level and its effect on dryness and hop expression. I don't think anyone would be terribly disappointed with the beer and it drinks quite well. Its just that I feel that its missing a bit of character.

I think it was a worthwhile experiment and it shouldn't cause anyone to dump the batch. But there certainly is a difference in the character of the beers made with low and high sulfate. You can still make fine pale ales with low sulfate, but I have confirmed for myself that I like the high sulfate. Give it a try some day.

[Cpt.Frederickson]

How much do you need?

I'll take a litre, anyone want the other 24?!