Water treatment in 600 words

[orlando]

Found this article which brewers wanting a quick heads up on all the fuss about treating your water may find as an interesting starting point. If you want to know a little more about treating with acid this thread is your next port of call.

[steward]

I admit to being a sceptic about the importance of water treatment, if not downright ignorant, having read several books that say it's not that important for amateurs. As I learned the craft with kits in a very soft water area, and then took up AG brewing in a fairly hard water area (248mg/l hardness) I was getting very frustrated about the strange but pronounced tang that I was still getting, no matter what the style, yeast or sugar (or lack of) added.

Having treated my last two mashes with AMS though, the nastiness has completely gone - one was a 80/-, the other an oatmeal stout. In the absence of anything else to explain the improvement, perhaps I need to keep on treating.

Can calcium reduction really have such a major effect on flavour?

[Aleman]

Over mineralisation can indeed cause quite harsh tastes. It is one of the reasons I have been advocating going no higher than 100 to 150ppm calcium in brewing liquor for some years

[orlando]

Over mineralisation can indeed cause quite harsh tastes. It is one of the reasons I have been advocating going no higher than 100 to 150ppm calcium in brewing liquor for some years

My Murphy & Sons water analysis came with a recommended range for calcium of 180-220 ppm for Pale Ales and bitters and a range of 120-170 for stouts porters and mild. Which I believe is what is passed on to commercial breweries as well.

My starting position is 137 and as I don't dilute my water or, at the moment at least use RO water, means the calcium levels rise as I alter the "flavour" profile. My next experiment will be to rebrew a beer with a "high" calcium end profile and dilute it back to circa 100 ppm and see what the outcome is. I have to say that so far I haven't noticed over mineralisation but of course have always had my beer this way, so a potentially eye opening experiment.

[sllimeel]

This calcium point has had me confused. My starting calcium is 99mg/l (130mg/l alkalinity) but the bru'n water profles for Yellow/Amber/Brown start at 50-60mg/l so, i have been adjusting the mash with my water and de-ionised to bring the calcium down. If i was to use my water alone my sulphate is quite high. So, should i bother...? So will look forward to your findings orlando!

[orlando]

If i was to use my water alone my sulphate is quite high. So, should i bother...? So will look forward to your findings orlando!

I would be interested in what you mean by high. The classic sulphate water is Burton, as high as 600 What we don't know much about is what brewers did with water back then, I have seen brew journals that show some Burton brewers boiled their water and added salts, many brewers elsewhere may have done nothing or just didn't record it. As I understand it the view in the UK, vis a vis sulphate, is its ratio to chloride. The classic English bitter style has this as 2 or 3 to 1. As long as this is in balance to this you should be OK

[orlando]

This calcium point has had me confused. My starting calcium is 99mg/l (130mg/l alkalinity) but the bru'n water profles for Yellow/Amber/Brown start at 50-60mg/l so, i have been adjusting the mash with my water and de-ionised to bring the calcium down.

Just a quick comment on this as for me this represents something of a divide between UK brewers and USA brewers. As you point out Brun Water advocates a 50ppm to 100ppm range for calcium across all styles. You can go less and in fact Pilsner styles are often less than 40ppm. Going lower than this can cause problems with beerstone formation, so that has to be taken into account. However as I mentioned above, Murphy's take a very different approach and I believe this is as a result of the practice of most UK brewers. Eric and WallyBrew have contributed some interesting observations around this topic so hopefully they will pick up on it and wade in again.

I don't think many of us are constantly complaining about over mineralised beers from breweries over here so this remains something of a mystery to me.

[Matt12398]

I admit to being a sceptic about the importance of water treatment, if not downright ignorant, having read several books that say it's not that important for amateurs. As I learned the craft with kits in a very soft water area, and then took up AG brewing in a fairly hard water area (248mg/l hardness) I was getting very frustrated about the strange but pronounced tang that I was still getting, no matter what the style, yeast or sugar (or lack of) added.

Having treated my last two mashes with AMS though, the nastiness has completely gone - one was a 80/-, the other an oatmeal stout. In the absence of anything else to explain the improvement, perhaps I need to keep on treating.

Can calcium reduction really have such a major effect on flavour?

Your AMS is not reducing calcium though is it? It's reducing carbonate.

[orlando]

I admit to being a sceptic about the importance of water treatment, if not downright ignorant, having read several books that say it's not that important for amateurs. As I learned the craft with kits in a very soft water area, and then took up AG brewing in a fairly hard water area (248mg/l hardness) I was getting very frustrated about the strange but pronounced tang that I was still getting, no matter what the style, yeast or sugar (or lack of) added.

Having treated my last two mashes with AMS though, the nastiness has completely gone - one was a 80/-, the other an oatmeal stout. In the absence of anything else to explain the improvement, perhaps I need to keep on treating.

Can calcium reduction really have such a major effect on flavour?

Your AMS is not reducing calcium though is it? It's reducing carbonate.

Correct, if anything it is putting it up. Which is one of the reasons for treating sparge water with an acid as any calcium added to sparge water has no effect on alkalinity and pH.as it needs malt phytins to reduce pH. The nastiness disappearing was almost certainly due to the reduction in alkalinity and the mash pH now being in the right range.

[Dave S]

If i was to use my water alone my sulphate is quite high. So, should i bother...? So will look forward to your findings orlando!

I would be interested in what you mean by high. The classic sulphate water is Burton, as high as 600 What we don't know much about is what brewers did with water back then, I have seen brew journals that show some Burton brewers boiled their water and added salts, many brewers elsewhere may have done nothing or just didn't record it. As I understand it the view in the UK, vis a vis sulphate, is its ratio to chloride. The classic English bitter style has this as 2 or 3 to 1. As long as this is in balance to this you should be OK

My next brew - this weekend hopefully will be a Burton Bitter with that 600 mg/l sulphates and pitched with WLP023. If it tastes anything like say a Marston's Pedigree I'll be well chuffed.

[orlando]

If i was to use my water alone my sulphate is quite high. So, should i bother...? So will look forward to your findings orlando!

I would be interested in what you mean by high. The classic sulphate water is Burton, as high as 600 What we don't know much about is what brewers did with water back then, I have seen brew journals that show some Burton brewers boiled their water and added salts, many brewers elsewhere may have done nothing or just didn't record it. As I understand it the view in the UK, vis a vis sulphate, is its ratio to chloride. The classic English bitter style has this as 2 or 3 to 1. As long as this is in balance to this you should be OK

My next brew - this weekend hopefully will be a Burton Bitter with that 600 mg/l sulphates and pitched with WLP023. If it tastes anything like say a Marston's Pedigree I'll be well chuffed.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were.

[Matt12398]

You're crazy Dave. Interesting to know how that turns out.

My question is though, won't that be a bit over the top on sulphate? One of my local breweries sometimes overdoes the gypsum and its not too pleasant. I also thought really high levels can give a laxative effect. You know water treatment better than me though so I'll wait for a report.

[mabrungard]

Dave, don't do it. 600 ppm sulfate is quite high and its not what the Burton breweries ever used.

I have several reports from Environmental Agency-Midlands for shallow wells at Coors and Marston breweries and they show quite a variation in water quality. I did an investigation into the geology of the Trent River valley near Burton and assembled a picture of how that hydrogeologic system works and the effect on groundwater quality in those wells. It turns out that the very permeable Sand and Gravel shallow aquifer along with the Trent River and Trent and Mersey Canal has a profound effect on water quality in those wells when they are pumped. When things are static like they are now, the water becomes quite mineralized. They are static now because the shallow aquifer in Burton is very subject to contamination now and the shallow wells aren't used much anymore. When the shallow wells are pumped quite a bit, the mineralized water becomes diluted by water from the river and canal.

So although I have shallow well results with up to 800 ppm sulfate, in typical brewery water usage, the concentrations would have been substantially moderated by the river and canal dilution. In addition, I've heard of numerous accounts from pro and amateur brewers that disparage the use of high sulfate in brewing. It seems that a sulfate level in the 300 to 350 ppm range is more likely the sweet spot for brewing hoppy ales. I haven't heard of anyone complaining about sulfate in that range when used for hoppy ales.

Enjoy!

[steward]

Can calcium reduction really have such a major effect on flavour?

Your AMS is not reducing calcium though is it? It's reducing carbonate.

Whoops! Yes, carbonate. Otherwise I'd be precipitating out calcium

[Dave S]

Dave, don't do it. 600 ppm sulfate is quite high and its not what the Burton breweries ever used.

I have several reports from Environmental Agency-Midlands for shallow wells at Coors and Marston breweries and they show quite a variation in water quality. I did an investigation into the geology of the Trent River valley near Burton and assembled a picture of how that hydrogeologic system works and the effect on groundwater quality in those wells. It turns out that the very permeable Sand and Gravel shallow aquifer along with the Trent River and Trent and Mersey Canal has a profound effect on water quality in those wells when they are pumped. When things are static like they are now, the water becomes quite mineralized. They are static now because the shallow aquifer in Burton is very subject to contamination now and the shallow wells aren't used much anymore. When the shallow wells are pumped quite a bit, the mineralized water becomes diluted by water from the river and canal.

So although I have shallow well results with up to 800 ppm sulfate, in typical brewery water usage, the concentrations would have been substantially moderated by the river and canal dilution. In addition, I've heard of numerous accounts from pro and amateur brewers that disparage the use of high sulfate in brewing. It seems that a sulfate level in the 300 to 350 ppm range is more likely the sweet spot for brewing hoppy ales. I haven't heard of anyone complaining about sulfate in that range when used for hoppy ales.

Enjoy!

Well I might then take your council on that, Martin and tone it down a bit. Maybe you should include an advisory note on the Burton profile.