Registering with HMRC...

Get advice on making beer from raw ingredients (malt, hops, water and yeast)
User avatar
Horatio
Under the Table
Posts: 1214
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: Stanford le Hope, Essex. UK

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by Horatio » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:06 am

alikocho wrote:You Do pay on experimental beers, unless you have registered your premises as being for the purposes of research (and then it cannot be sold or consumed). This covers labs.

Otherwise you pay duty on all beer that crosses the duty point, which includes consumption.

What you dont pay on is destroyed beer.

R&D then by Micros tends to be small pilot batches or experimental beers in the marketplace to make it affordable.
That's no strictly true. As a registered brewer you can brew for experimental purposes and claim duty relief. If you are not registered and only wish to brew frexperimental purposes you do not need to register but you do need to notify the NRU.

This is from Notice 226 Beer Duty

17.2 Is duty payable on beer brewed for experimental purposes by registered brewers?
No. Duty relief will be given on any beer brewed by a registered brewer which is to be used only for research or experiments in the production of beer. The relief from duty is subject to conditions.

17.3 Do I need to notify you of my intention to produce beer for experimental purposes?
Yes. If you are not a registered brewer you must, before you start the production of beer for research or experimental purposes, write to the NRU (for address, see paragraph 4.3) advising of:
• your name and the address at which you intend to produce beer
• your normal business or occupation
• the quantity of beer you expect to produce each month
• how you intend to dispose of the beer, and
• details of any other trade you have in goods liable to Excise duties.
As well as providing the information shown above, you must also observe the conditions shown in paragraph 17.5 and keep the records specified in paragraph 17.6, otherwise duty will be payable on the beer.

17.4 Research and experiment
To qualify for relief, the beer must be brewed to test new brewing processes, equipment and ingredients. The relief can apply to trials by registered brewers who wish to test the suitability of new brewing methods or materials, and do not intend to sell the beer.

17.5 Disposal of beer produced by registered brewers
To qualify for relief from duty, you must not sell or give away any of the beer produced. You may conduct taste tests among your employees, but the beer must not be consumed in any other circumstances. Taste tests must not include prospective or actual customers.
When the research or experiments are finished all the remaining beer must be destroyed.
If I had all the money I'd spent on brewing... I'd spend it on brewing!

alikocho

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by alikocho » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:33 am

ah. That clarifies that. And means Hmrc misadvised me.

User avatar
Horatio
Under the Table
Posts: 1214
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: Stanford le Hope, Essex. UK

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by Horatio » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:00 am

I'm only quoting from the Beer Notice. I have spoken to a few HMRC people and seem to get different answers each time! I think they do not even read their own rules sometimes! :lol:
If I had all the money I'd spent on brewing... I'd spend it on brewing!

darkonnis

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by darkonnis » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:11 pm

there have been big changes a foot in HMRC as they attempt to go toward a more automated service. The old "experts" who actually knew the law and knew what was and wasn't taxable or affected by duty are a dying breed. The father in law used to do training but when he retires, there won't be anyone to take up the program in an attempt to cut staffing levels... Same old story unfortunately.

User avatar
Horatio
Under the Table
Posts: 1214
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: Stanford le Hope, Essex. UK

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by Horatio » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:16 pm

darkonnis wrote:there have been big changes a foot in HMRC as they attempt to go toward a more automated service. The old "experts" who actually knew the law and knew what was and wasn't taxable or affected by duty are a dying breed. The father in law used to do training but when he retires, there won't be anyone to take up the program in an attempt to cut staffing levels... Same old story unfortunately.
I think the multi role of the HMRC means that when you ring you may not get through to one of the beer duty experts. Three out of the last four times I have spoken to them I have been told that they didn't know what I needed to know as they were on the VAT team! That said, my registration was very simple and painless. It was accepted first time round and was processed within the stated time frame. :D
If I had all the money I'd spent on brewing... I'd spend it on brewing!

User avatar
towser
Piss Artist
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by towser » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:46 pm

The other thing to think about is the cross-reference to paying tax or claiming relief. No doubt HMRC will cross-reference it. If you file separate accounts for the businesses or have joint premises with your house, you can claim a fair share of lighting, heating, building repairs, rates, rent etc etc etc. I'd be erring on the side of making your living space as small as possible in the taxman's eyes :wink:

User avatar
Horatio
Under the Table
Posts: 1214
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: Stanford le Hope, Essex. UK

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by Horatio » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:01 pm

Dennis King wrote:When your up and running let me know where it's on sale, like to support local enterprise.
Just secured three outlets! Only a trial basis but it's a start. Delivered to the Miley in Rochford earlier today and will be supplying The Welcome Club (CIU) in Stanford at the end of the week. Also got a pin going into the Rising Sun (also Stanford) in a few weeks time. The rising sun have loads of camra awards and have a good number of real ales on all the time and are really keen to support me. :D only a small start but acorns and oaks etc! Lol
If I had all the money I'd spent on brewing... I'd spend it on brewing!

snakepie@hotmail.com

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by snakepie@hotmail.com » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:29 pm

Wow -what a fascinating post. Horatio - this is a dream of mine also. Would simply love to start my own brewery.
The one thing that i really struggle with is finding and accumulating all the facts on how to set up my own brewery. So many conflicting messages and costs that I'm not sure what to do or if I have the investment / funds.
Is there anyone out there that could write a step by step guide on the paperwork and costs - almost a "from homebrewer to professional brewer"? God that would be amazing!!!

Thanks

User avatar
floydmeddler
Telling everyone Your My Best Mate
Posts: 4160
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:37 pm
Location: Irish man living in Brighton

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by floydmeddler » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:47 pm

Hi Horatio. Any chance you could put up some pics of your set up?

User avatar
Horatio
Under the Table
Posts: 1214
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: Stanford le Hope, Essex. UK

Re: Registering with HMRC...

Post by Horatio » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:34 am

floydmeddler wrote:Hi Horatio. Any chance you could put up some pics of your set up?
This is the kit we use but this was taken before we decided to get registered so the area it is in has now changed! It is now all plumbed in and in a "clean" area.
Image
I also have three large chest freezers with STC1000s for various fermenting or conditioning tasks and a a large storage area for grain etc. we are in the process of building two cold rooms too. One thing I under estimated was the space needed! Now I need even more as we are getting more casks to deal with demand. If it carrys on the way it has started I will need bigger kit much sooner than I thought! Then again it may fall flat on its arse! Who knows? :lol:
If I had all the money I'd spent on brewing... I'd spend it on brewing!

Post Reply