Stout help (water treatment)...

[Skittlebrau]

Hi all

I'm brewing a stout tomorrow. The grains are weighed, water measured, everything's pretty much set up. And I don't have any gypsum - I forgot to buy some. The intended treatment profile is in the image below. Now, I know as this is a stout it is the type of beer where I can most readily get away without any treatment (bar campden, already done). What I'm asking, though, is should I add any/all of the other suggested treatments and if so do I need to tweak the amounts in the absence of gypsum?

Cheers in advance

Tim

[Eric]

Can't read that table too well, but what I'm mostly missing is what your own water contains. Secondly we need to know the grain bill to match the water.
That said, for most stouts it is the calcium chloride that is important to bring out the malts. Gypsum also provides essential calcium but is most beneficial to enhance hop profiles while in a stout, hops are not the main player with a primary purpose of balancing any potential excessive sweetness.
At the least, I'd maybe both increase the calcium chloride and put at least half into the mash and worry less about gypsum.

[Skittlebrau]

Sorry about the picture, here are the output values pasted below, along with the water info:

Ca 4.7mg/l
Mg 2.36mg/l
Na 24.04mg/l
SO4 12.1mg/l
Cl 37.7mg/l

Alkalinity as CaCO3 11mg/l

Total water 39 litres.
Mash water 16.11 litres

Gypsum added to mash: 1.24 grams Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate) (Ca SO4 2H2O)
Chalk added to mash: 1.17 grams Chalk (Calcium Carbonate) (Ca CO3)

Gypsum added to boiler: 1.76 grams Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate) (Ca SO4 2H2O)
Table Salt added to boiler: 5.05 grams Table Salt (Na Cl)
Epsom Salts added to boiler: 3.02 grams Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate) (Mg SO4 7H2O)
Calcium Chloride added to boiler: 18.24 grams Calcium Chloride (Dihydrate) (Ca Cl2 2H2O)

[Eric]

Don't apologise, it could be my eyes and specs.
First problem is lack of alkalinty to deal with the high acidity of the dark malts. 1.17gm of chalk in 39 litres means 30mg/l CaCO3, only enough for a pale beer.
Gypsum additions would give 17mg/l calcium and 43 sulphate
That from calcium chloride will add 126 calcium and 226 chloride.
So no great problem with the amount of calcium.
You'll get more chloride from the salt and sulphate from the Epsom salts as well as the components already in your water supply.
Maybe if you reduce the table salt and increase the Epsom salts you'll get a better sulphate/chloride ratio, but all in all I'd certainly not be worried about that.
The lack of alkalinity is perhaps a greater concern. Could you check that figure again?

Edit, didn't read the posting correctly and have recalculated my figures in accordance.

[Skittlebrau]

I've tested the water a number of times. That's the right figure for alkalinity.

[Eric]

Sorry, it wasn't your own water's alkalinity I meant, but the added component, calcium carbonate.
Your water has a low level alkalinity, much lower than is usual for making stout with a large component of dark, more acidic, malts. If 1.17g of chalk could be got into solution in the 16.11 litres of the mash liquor, it would raise alkalinity by 72 to 83mg/l CaCO3, on the low side for a stout and the mash would be more acidic than is the norm. The very lowly alkaline sparge would then have little moderating influence on what reaches the boiler.
I don't see the lack of gypsum as a problem, I would prefer to have higher alkalinity in the mash and sparge and I wouldn't use as much table salt, BUT, that is my preferance. What you have will make beer, good luck and for the future you might want to investigate how you could raise the water's alkalinity for darker beers.

[Skittlebrau]

Well I went with untreated in the end and may have cocked up the mash so it will be interesting to see how it turns out...

[mabrungard]

That is a fine tap water for brewing a dry stout, but may be lacking alkalinity for brewing other stout styles as Eric mentioned.

In the case of brewing a dry stout, mashing the pale malt and barley separately from the roast malt is imperative to avoid a mash pH that is too low. This is what Guinness does at St James Gate. Those separate worts are combined after the mashing.

In the case of brewing any other stout that shouldn't have that acidic 'twang', more alkalinity will be needed in your mashing water. Given that the sodium content of the tap water is not very high, you can afford to use baking soda to provide the alkalinity needed for a stout mash. Do not use chalk since it has been proven to NOT contribute alkalinity to the mash. (It does not dissolve in a timely manner) The baking soda is added only to the mashing water and not sparging water.

Leaving the gypsum out of the mash could actually be helpful if the water does not have enough alkalinity. The gypsum would further depress the mashing water's residual alkalinity and that would make the pH drop more. You may be better off without the proposed treatment. Don't worry, it will still be beer!

I invite you to read more about the differing needs of mashing and sparging water on the Water Knowledge page of the Bru'n Water site.

Enjoy!

[Eric]

This is where Martin and I part company. Despite appreciating that chemistry confirms a beer can be made with water almost without mineral content, the result for me would be similar to a sexual relationship without genitals. Sodium would be the exception, finding it one to limit.