Wild Hops identification

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towser
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Wild Hops identification

Post by towser » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:31 pm

I pass several wild hop plants when walking the dog and this week they were perfect to harvest. I live in southern Austria not too far away from the Slovenian border if that helps. These are two types I have picked so far, and are distinctly different in terms of leaf and also cone:

The first one is a small compact hop with a bright green leaf. They have green stems, and they are not too prickly at all. Having looked on the internet for these, I'm tending towards Perle, but really can't be sure.
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The second one is a dark green leaf, even darker veins through the leaf and a prickly red stem. The only information I can find regarding a red stem hop is with regard to a variety called Hersbrucker Red Stem. However, the hop doesn't seem too match Hersbrucker.
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Clearly, I haven't got much idea what either are, but would appreciate some help. I have dried the hops now and the smell is incredible from both. I will try a brew with them as late additions to see what happens. I'm going to do a hop tea this afternoon to try to get a flavour profile.

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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by seymour » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:25 pm

How cool?!

This background info doesn't necessarily help identify your hops, but it seems to me they could be true wild/native hops, which wouldn't perfectly align with any particular cultivated variety. Or, more likely, these escaped from nearby commercial hop fields at some time in the past, and have since become naturalized. If so, they have likely reproduced from seed, probably hybridized with any and all local humulus species. In other words--who knows their parentage?--but if you rub 'em between your hands and they smell nice, they'll almost certainly smell nice in your beer too.

Do you know if there is/was a hop industry in your region, and if so, the type(s) they grew commercially? For instance, the neighboring Slovenian hop industry (Stryian/Savinjski Golding) was bred from Fuggles rhizomes from England (not related to Goldings at all, despite the naming mix-up). Most modern Slovenian hops were Stryian/Savinjski Golding crossed with Northern Brewer for higher alpha acids, as was Perle, so your initial suspicion could be close to the truth...

I too, would be very excited by these finds. I predict you've got one-of-a-kind varietals there. If your brews turn-out nice, you should transplant some rhizomes to your garden. The best thing about naturalized hops is that several generations of natural selection have been done for you, you already know it's the most disease/pest/drought resistent plant around, perfectly adapted to your local growing conditions!

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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by Blackaddler » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:54 pm

Fuggles are actually a Golding variety.

I also used to think that Fuggles were the older variety, but it's not so.

Goldings have been around since 1790. Fuggles since about 1875.

Ed's the expert here... http://edsbeer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/g ... dings.html
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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by seymour » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:06 pm

Blackaddler wrote:Fuggles are actually a Golding variety...
Not exactly. The seed which grew into Fuggles was perhaps descended from a Goldings, or perhaps they both share a common landrace parentage, but they are separate and distinct cultivars. This was known based on taste and aroma in the 1800s, but has been proven using modern oil and genetic analysis as well. Don't sell yourself short, your Englishmen have two distinct classic hops to be proud of.
Blackaddler wrote:...Ed's the expert here... http://edsbeer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/g ... dings.html
I agree, but even he defers to Peter Darby, quoted here from his influencial "The History of Hop Breeding and Development" in The Journal of Brewery History, vol. 121 (Winter 2005), pp. 94-112,
In addition to local adaptability, variation could arise through natural clonal changes or by the unintentional establishment of a seedling. If these plants were selected, they were often attributed to the grower who recognised their potential. Thus arose such varieties as Mr Golding's hop or Mr Fuggle's hop, later contracted to Goldings and Fuggles. The traditional hops in the USA, the Clusters were almost certainly chance seedlings which have arisen through natural hybridisation between European hops introduced by the Massachusetts Company in 1629 and wild US hops.

After several centuries of grower selection, very many different varieties existed. By 1900 more than 20 varieties were known in England and at least 60 recorded in mainland Europe. Modern methods of analysing essential oils have been used to distinguish which of the older varieties are clones of each other and which are distinct varieties. Varieties such as Rodmersham, Mercers, Mathon, East Kent, Canterbury, Cobbs, Bramling, Eastwell and Early Bird have been shown to be variants of the same variety, the Golding, selected in 1790. The Golding clones vary in their ripening date, yield and susceptibility to diseases. In contrast, Fuggle, reputed to be selected in 1861 as a chance seedling, has indeed been shown to be a distinct variety. However, oil analysis indicates that Fuggle and Savinjski Golding are clonal variants of each other.

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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by Blackaddler » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:54 pm

I don't claim to be an expert, but what we do know is that the Fuggles variety was raised from seed.

Cross-fertilization leads to new varieties, but we can't be certain which variety [or varieties] Fuggles was mutated from.

However, it was discovered in Horsmonden, in Kent. At the time, Goldings had been growing in Kent for over 80 years, so that ought to give a big clue.
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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by seymour » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:14 pm

Blackaddler wrote:I don't claim to be an expert, but what we do know is that the Fuggles variety was raised from seed.

Cross-fertilization leads to new varieties, but we can't be certain which variety [or varieties] Fuggles was mutated from.

However, it was discovered in Horsmonden, in Kent. At the time, Goldings had been growing in Kent for over 80 years, so that ought to give a big clue.
That's true, we're in agreement. I was just saying Fuggles and Goldings are distinct cultivars, that's all. For instance, Chinook has Peltham Goldings as a parent, too, but it would be inaccurate to say "Chinook is actually a Goldings variety."
Last edited by seymour on Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by Blackaddler » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:11 pm

OK... we agree that they're derived from Goldings, one way or another, anyway.
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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by seymour » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:08 pm

Blackaddler wrote:OK... we agree that they're derived from Goldings, one way or another, anyway.
Probably. I'll grant you that. :)

Fuggles was different enough from Goldings variations that it was immediately recognized and named thus. While it's true most of what was grown in Kent would nowadays be considered Goldings variations, that's not ALL that was growing in Kent and surrounding Counties. Hops seeds are fertilized by wind-blown pollen, which can travel great distances. There was surely wide biodiversity amongst native English landraces (after all, Farmer Goldings picked his favourite out of the lot...some of the rest were surely still around 80 years later), not to mention the Belgian/Dutch/German "noble" hops brought across the English Channel by Flemish weavers in the early 1500s. That's a lot longer than 80 years, and undoubtedly played a part in the genetic makeup of classic English brewing hops.

For the record, I don't mean to sound argumentative, I love discussing this stuff back-and-forth. You're probably right, even if one Fuggles' parent was a Goldings variety, the other half of its genes can produce very different brewing characteristics. Again, Chinook is a perfect example.


But back to the OP: if your "wild" hops are descended from cultivated hops, that almost certainly connects them to Fuggles/Styrian Goldings.

Unless--and this is another really cool possibility--they happen to be even older, a naturally Verticillium Wilt-resistant descendent of German noble varieties.

From The Breeding and Parentage of Hop Varieties by Ing. Gerard W. Ch. Lemmens,
Fuggle was so extensively grown throughout the U.K. that by 1949 it reached 78% of the total English crop. In the 20th Century, it was grown in the U.S., Tasmania, Canada, Belgium, Austria and Yugoslavia (now Slovenian Republic). I mention Yugoslavia because it is not called Fuggle there but Styrian Golding. The reason for this mishap in names is as follows: In the 1930s, the Yugoslavian hop industry went down with a Verticillium Wilt strain that affected their aroma hops which were of German origin. They then looked to the U.K. for new plant material and thought that they had chosen an English Golding, hence called it Styrian (originally Steirer, after a hop growing area on the Austrian/Yugoslavia border) Golding. (page 14)
...Styrian Golding (Austria, Slovenian Republic)
In the former country of Yugoslavia, hops were grown in two districts, one near Lake Bled in the Savinja Valley and the other in Backa near Zagreb. Styrian
(Steirer) Golding are grown on the border of Austria and the Savinja Valley. By genetics they are true English Fuggles, which are grown seedless. Hence, they are slightly higher in alpha acid content, ranging from 4.0-6.0%. The beta acids are very similar to Fuggles, 2.0-3.0% and the cohumulone is 28%.
The Savinja Valley suffered badly in the early 1930s from a disease which devastated their (German origin) aroma cultivars. This resulted in a visit to England to obtain and English aroma variety. They thought they had selected a Golding, so they called it Styrian or Steirer Golding unaware it was a Fuggle they had selected. (page 19)

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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by towser » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:41 am

The Savinja valley is around 80km from me as the crow flies and is on a southern wind route - ie, interconnecting valleys. I've done a taste test with hop teas and they do taste quite green, although smooth. I think its worth a couple of small brews just to find out if they have potential. I compared them against EKG, Fuggles, Willamette and they were probably more similar to EKG but 'greener'. The hops I compared them against however were old packets I had, so they were not fresh and I wouldn't have used them in a brew. I may have a drive out that way one day to see the area. They have a town called Lasko down there, which is also a major brewer in Slovenia.

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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by seymour » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:24 pm

towser wrote:"...similar to EKG but 'greener'..."
Sounds delicious to me, best of luck on the brew!

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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by scuppeteer » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:41 pm

Fuggles is not a Goldings relative any more than I am related to Genghis Khan. Goldings are "native" whereas Fuggles isn't. As for it being raised from seed is fairy tale stuff I'm afraid.

Regarding the parentage of your wild variety is a guessing game, the new Sussex hop has been analysed and can find no known parentage. Years of natural selection will eventually dissipate the original genes to such an extent they become untraceable. The Sussex is unique despite the fact it was found near a major hop growing region on the Kent/Sussex borders.
If its good in the brew get some root stock next Spring and grow your own, baring in mind they are far more susceptible to disease away from the hedgerow than in it.
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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by orlando » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:57 am

scuppeteer wrote: the new Sussex hop has been analysed and can find no known parentage. Years of natural selection will eventually dissipate the original genes to such an extent they become untraceable. The Sussex is unique despite the fact it was found near a major hop growing region on the Kent/Sussex borders.
If your refering to the hop Harvey's use in their Wild Hop Sussex bitter, I can confirm it makes for a lovely brew, quite exciting all this wild hop brewing.
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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by Blackaddler » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:16 am

scuppeteer wrote:Fuggles is not a Goldings relative any more than I am related to Genghis Khan.
Do you have a reference for this?

One in 200 men alive today is a relative of Genghis Khan. You might be in with a chance...
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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by scuppeteer » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:57 pm

orlando wrote:
scuppeteer wrote: the new Sussex hop has been analysed and can find no known parentage. Years of natural selection will eventually dissipate the original genes to such an extent they become untraceable. The Sussex is unique despite the fact it was found near a major hop growing region on the Kent/Sussex borders.
If your refering to the hop Harvey's use in their Wild Hop Sussex bitter, I can confirm it makes for a lovely brew, quite exciting all this wild hop brewing.
May I suggest you try Old Dairy's Wild Hop, a far nicer pint... not that I am biased at all! They (Harvey's) did ask first if they could use the name. :lol:
We got some green from the farmer 2 week's ago and did exactly the same brew, we called it Wet & Wild, now that is a damn fine pint.
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Re: Wild Hops identification

Post by scuppeteer » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:59 pm

Blackaddler wrote:
scuppeteer wrote:Fuggles is not a Goldings relative any more than I am related to Genghis Khan.
Do you have a reference for this?

One in 200 men alive today is a relative of Genghis Khan. You might be in with a chance...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't think so, I'm not really into world domination and pillaging just a nice quiet pint! :wink:
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