Marble Dobber Inspired Pale Ale

[Matt12398]

My brother, Belter, wants to brew something like Marble Dobber. We've looked for recipes on the net and the thread on here but there is no actual recipe to be found. Therefore we're going to make something inspired by Dobber but actually nothing like it because all we really know is that it has a bit of biscuit malt in and Nelson Sauvin hops. I've actually never tasted it myself and without Seymour's ability to magic recipes out of snippets of knowledge we're going with this.

Usually my pale ales follow a fairly simple recipe and familiar hop schedule. This one is a bit more random with more ingredients so thoughts are welcome on this one. We'll be dry hopping with Mosaic for 5 days after primary fermentation but it's too new a variety to be in Beersmith. Worried the gravity may finish a bit high but Beersmith never seems to be very accurate on this.

Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Bottling Volume: 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 18.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 67.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name
6.00 kg Maris Otter (Crisp) (7.9 EBC) 85.8 %
0.50 kg Munich (Dingemans) (10.8 EBC) 7.2 %
0.25 kg Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) 3.6 %
0.12 kg Biscuit (Dingemans) (44.3 EBC) 1.7 %
0.12 kg Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett) 1.7 %
24.50 g Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 32.1 IBUs
12.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min 8.0 IBUs
12.00 g Super Alpha [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min 7.2 IBUs
15.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min 7.3 IBUs
14.00 g Super Alpha [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min 6.2 IBUs
16.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 3.9 IBUs
14.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 3.1 IBUs
14.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
14.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Northwest Ale (Wyeast Labs #1332) [124.2 Yeast 15 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6.99 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 18.23 l of water at 73.1 C 66.7 C 60 min

[seymour]

My brother, Belter, wants to brew something like Marble Dobber...

Who doesn't?! Way to step up and take the challenge, I wish you both luck.

Your recipe would brew a tasty beer, but I don't know how close it'll get to Marble Dobber. The grainbill is a mystery to me. I'm not convinced it contains Biscuit Malt. They've never actually said that, I think it's a ruse. They only say it tastes "biscuity" which is how most people describe Maris Otter base malt. Another quibble: I don't taste any rich Munich Malt sweetness in Dobber, do you? I suspect it's just Maris Otter & a little English Crystal, or maybe Maris Otter, English Crystal, Wheat as you suggest. I stipulate "English Crystal" because I think American (and a few German) cara malts have an intensely caramelly, fruit-syrupy, soy-saucy taste which is not as pleasant as classic English Crystal malts.

The hops aren't a mystery, the brewery used to freely share Dobber is brewed with New Zealand Nelson Sauvin and Green Bullet, even though they have since grown more secretive. I would drop the Super Alpha, Simcoe, and Mosaic (those last two are crazy cool fruity, but in a different way than Dobber, in my opinion), and simply use the two known NZ hops.

Your yeast choice is closely related, which you obviously already know. Marble uses the Gales strain. They don't filter or pasteurize, so you can culture the real deal from their bottles, which many of us forum members have easily done, even without a stir-plate or other fancy equipment. Wyeast 1332 came from Hales brewery in Seattle, Washington, USA (hence "Northwest Ale"), which supposedly got their yeast long ago from Gales, though it has drifted somewhat.

What does everyone else think?

[Matt12398]

I know it's not even going to be close to the inspiration due to the random hops choices. We have a lot of hops which could do with using up soonish hence the chuck everything at it approach.

The yeast choice was deliberate. I think my brother also has a closer related Gales strain from Brewlabs but it's a slant and we don't have enough time to step it up.

When you say the two known NZ hops are you talking about Nelson Sauvin and the Green Bullet you suggest? I think we have Green Bullet as well. Just those two? How would you use them? Super Alpha is as you may know the old name for Dr. Rudi and they are NZ hops so wasn't sure if you meant them.

Let's ditch the Munich but retain the controversial biscuit for fun.

[seymour]

When you say the two known NZ hops are you talking about Nelson Sauvin and the Green Bullet you suggest? I think we have Green Bullet as well. Just those two? How would you use them?

Let's ditch the Munich but retain the controversial biscuit for fun.

Yeah, sounds good.

I don't claim to know this answer; I'm as eager for Dobber details as you. But I would start with tried-and-true New Zealand hops usage, and tweak from there next time. Here's a great website reference, complete with recipes and everything: http://www.nzhops.co.nz/varieties/index.html

I would probably try something like:
Green Bullet: 70% of IBU for 60 min
Green Bullet and Nelson Sauvin: 30 min
Nelson Sauvin: 15 min, flame-out, and dry-hops

[Matt12398]

OK then you've sold me and I know that 30 minute addition will provide some flavour but I thought Nelson Sauvin on it's own will not give a very nice taste i.e. it works best with others?

[seymour]

...I thought Nelson Sauvin on it's own will not give a very nice taste...

It's all a matter of taste, of course, but there are many experienced beer drinkers who will adamantly disagree with you there. Lots of people go ape shit for Nelson Sauvin IPAs. But if you're nervous, try more Green Bullet at 15 min too.

As I said, Simcoe and Mosaic are delicious too. By all means use 'em if you got 'em, but I really think Dobber is just Green Bullet and Nelson Sauvin.

[Matt12398]

Oh yeah no doubt. This is not meant to be Dobber but rather a quest for a maltier, sweeter IPA in a similar style. Having more details now though let's make it more Dobber.

[seymour]

Oh yeah no doubt. This is not meant to be Dobber but rather a quest for a maltier, sweeter IPA in a similar style. Having more details now though let's make it more Dobber.

Sounds great, I can't wait to hear how it goes. Happy brewing!

[orlando]

Oh yeah no doubt. This is not meant to be Dobber but rather a quest for a maltier, sweeter IPA in a similar style. Having more details now though let's make it more Dobber.

Sorry to butt in but if you want this to be a "maltier, sweeter IPA" don't drop the Munich, this malt really ups that side of the mash and does so without adding a lot of colour too. I also think if you want a biscuit edge to it you need more than 1.7% it will get a bit lost in that grain bill.

[jimp2003]

I also think if you want a biscuit edge to it you need more than 1.7% it will get a bit lost in that grain bill.

I was thinking the same thing. If you make it very hoppy this amount of biscuit just won't give anything IMO.

Good luck with the brew though!

[Matt12398]

Ok we upped the biscuit to 300 g which is all we had.
I used 200 g in a less hoppy style before and it was intense and took a while to mellow but understand the point on hoppiness.

Mash is on, pH spot on, sparge starting imminently.

Will post the recipe later for what we actually used.

[Matt12398]

Unfortunately the Northwest Ale was completely lifeless so we've had to go with a Safale 04 backup. It won't be the same but hopefully still good.


Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.50 kg Maris Otter (Crisp) (7.9 EBC) Grain 1 91.7 %
0.35 kg Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (118 Grain 2 4.9 %
0.3 kg Biscuit (Dingemans) (44.3 EBC) Grain 3 1.7 %
0.12 kg Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 E Grain 4 1.7 %
31.75 g Green Bullet [12.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 34.0 IBUs
10.00 g Green Bullet [12.20 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 8.2 IBUs
10.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.07 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 8.1 IBUs
10.00 g Green Bullet [12.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 5.3 IBUs
10.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.07 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 5.3 IBUs
28.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.07 %] - Aroma Steep 0. Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Northwest Ale (Wyeast Labs #1332) [124.2 Yeast 11 -
40.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.07 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Da Hop 12 0.0 IBUs

[seymour]

Man, oh man, that sounds really good. Too bad about the yeast, but at least this should be a tasty baseline for further experimentation.

Did your colour come out anything like this?


Keep us posted on your finished product!

[Matt12398]

So we bottled this one last weekend but couldn't wait to try it so me and Belter opened up a bottle each this evening and with the power of the internet had a drink together via video call.

Aside from it being slightly over-sweet this one tasted lovely. Not anything like Dobber but we definitely achieved our goal of a sweeter and maltier IPA. If the Northwest Ale hadn't failed I think it could have been nicer but the S04 did a good job. In my experience when something has been quite sweet soon after bottling it tends to dry out over a few weeks so I think this one is going to get very good. There's a definite hit of Nelson Sauvin.

Based on how good this one tastes we're going to brew this one again and again to try and improve it. I think next time we'll adjust the recipe for slightly less crystal, more biscuit and step up the Gale's slant we've got.

Just need to source plenty of Nelson Sauvin and Green Bullet now. Might have to get a bale of each.

[orlando]

Man, oh man, that sounds really good. Too bad about the yeast, but at least this should be a tasty baseline for further experimentation.

Did your colour come out anything like this?


Keep us posted on your finished product!

Why is it so cloudy, is it meant to be or are your pouring skills in need of a polish .