One last saison

[DaveyT]

Hello
It's still sweltering in the Canary Islands (September's always crazy hot*) so the only beer I can get away with is a saison.
I want to use oat malt and biscuit malt and was wondering whether they would be inappropriate for the style. I was thinking of using 4-5% of each, possibly less.
I made a dark saison earlier in the summer using oat malt. While it's turned out as a nice pint, it seems a tad chewy for a saison.
Thing is, I've never had a saison so I don't actually know what they're meant to be like. I've only started brewing them as they sit nicely in the 28C ambient temp of my flat. Any other style calls for faffing with water and ice which I can't really be doing with.
I'm also in a bit of a bind hops. I'll bitter with Flyer and flavour with maybe Flyer and EKG or Flyer and Brewer's Gold. I've also got Centennial and Cascade, though, so there are options. Is it worth hop bursting this style or will the yeast do away with the hop characteristics? My dark saison doesn't seem overly hoppy, but then there are lots of other competing flavours in it.
Advice would be more than welcome as I'm itching to get started.

Thanks
David
*If ya not tied to school holidays, September's an ideal time to come here. Esp in the north; it's the hottest month of the year.

[bazza]

This is a bit late so you probably already brewed this or moved on. Traditional saisons were brewed with whatever the farmer/brewer had on hand. Spelt was often used. Add whatever you have available! A good saison yeast is the key. I just had a bottle of my latest version last night. I kept it simple from a grainbill standpoint and rather bitter but not late hopped and about 5.5% abv. It really turned out nice and I will definitely do that version again.

If you can find a bottle of Brasserie Dupont Saison, buy it!

[AlphaAcidHouse]

I cannot recommend Wyeast 3711 french saison yeast highly enough for this.
This is my Saison recipe

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast 3711
Yeast Starter: Yes
Batch Size : 21L
Original Gravity: 1.062
Final Gravity: 1.002
IBU: 36.3 IBU
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60 Min
Color: 7.5 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 Days at 68 Degrees
Additional Fermentation: 14 days at room temp
Tasting Notes: Citrus and fruit phenols up front balance nicely with earthy hops, great mouthfeel

farmhouse Saison

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines:
-------------------------------


Batch Size 21L
Total Grain : 5,5KG
Anticipated OG: 1.062
Anticipated SRM: 7.5
Anticipated IBU: 36.3
Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Sugars:

3.8KG. Pilsner Malt(2-row)
680G White Wheat
220G. CaraMunich Malt
220G. Flaked Oats
500G. Orange Blossom Honey (added with 5 minutes left in the boil)

Hops/Spices:

15G. Sorachi Ace, 10.50%aa @FWH.
15G. EKG 4.75%aa @FWH.
15G. EKG, 4.75%aa @30 min.
30G. EKG, 4.75%aa @15 min.

1.5 tsp Black pepper, Fresh ground @5 min.

Yeast:

WYeast 3711 PC French Saison


Mash Schedule:
Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 5kg
Water : 13.5L



Saccharification Rest Temp:65 degrees, 60 minutes (13.5L)
Mash-out Rest Temp: 92 degrees, 10 minutes (4.7L.)
Sparge Temp: 77 degrees, 10 minutes (13.2 gal est.)


Mash at 64 degrees for 60 minutes, then add your mash-out water and give it another 10 minutes, vorlauf and collect in boil kettle

After draining add your sparge water and give it a good stir and let it rest for 10 minutes, vorlauf and drain to the kettle.

Chill to 18 degrees, aerate well on the way to the fermenter and pitch the yeast starter, ferment at 68 degrees for 2 weeks, move the fermenter at that point to ambient room temp for another 2 weeks,

Rack to keg or bottle and carbonate


This is so popular in my town that I have unlimited free swaps in a few pubs of bottles for pints.

[AdyG]

I cannot recommend Wyeast 3711 french saison yeast highly enough for this.
This is my Saison recipe

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast 3711
Yeast Starter: Yes
Batch Size : 21L
Original Gravity: 1.062
Final Gravity: 1.002
IBU: 36.3 IBU
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60 Min
Color: 7.5 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 Days at 68 Degrees
Additional Fermentation: 14 days at room temp
Tasting Notes: Citrus and fruit phenols up front balance nicely with earthy hops, great mouthfeel

farmhouse Saison

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines:
-------------------------------


Batch Size 21L
Total Grain : 5,5KG
Anticipated OG: 1.062
Anticipated SRM: 7.5
Anticipated IBU: 36.3
Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Sugars:

3.8KG. Pilsner Malt(2-row)
680G White Wheat
220G. CaraMunich Malt
220G. Flaked Oats
500G. Orange Blossom Honey (added with 5 minutes left in the boil)

Hops/Spices:

15G. Sorachi Ace, 10.50%aa @FWH.
15G. EKG 4.75%aa @FWH.
15G. EKG, 4.75%aa @30 min.
30G. EKG, 4.75%aa @15 min.

1.5 tsp Black pepper, Fresh ground @5 min.

Yeast:

WYeast 3711 PC French Saison


Mash Schedule:
Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 5kg
Water : 13.5L



Saccharification Rest Temp:65 degrees, 60 minutes (13.5L)
Mash-out Rest Temp: 92 degrees, 10 minutes (4.7L.)
Sparge Temp: 77 degrees, 10 minutes (13.2 gal est.)


Mash at 64 degrees for 60 minutes, then add your mash-out water and give it another 10 minutes, vorlauf and collect in boil kettle

After draining add your sparge water and give it a good stir and let it rest for 10 minutes, vorlauf and drain to the kettle.

Chill to 18 degrees, aerate well on the way to the fermenter and pitch the yeast starter, ferment at 68 degrees for 2 weeks, move the fermenter at that point to ambient room temp for another 2 weeks,

Rack to keg or bottle and carbonate


This is so popular in my town that I have unlimited free swaps in a few pubs of bottles for pints.

That looks amazing! I fancy doing a Saison next year but hadn't got round to looking for a recipe yet but this could be the one. My new found interest in Saisons started off when I had a Wild Brew Co Epic Saison which had Sorachi Ace in it.

[AlphaAcidHouse]

you won't be dissapointed I assure you, it is tart lemony, peppery fruity goodness all over. Everyone that has tried it has been knocked out, it is such a simple recipe but the yeast is the star, I would recommend not subbing it for any other yeast. It dries out all the way to 10.02 and is just so drinkable.

[AdyG]

you won't be dissapointed I assure you, it is tart lemony, peppery fruity goodness all over. Everyone that has tried it has been knocked out, it is such a simple recipe but the yeast is the star, I would recommend not subbing it for any other yeast. It dries out all the way to 10.02 and is just so drinkable.

That's it sold to me! I will do it next spring/ summer as the weather gets better. I will definitely make sure I use that yeast then, specially if it drops it to 1002! Lowest I've got to so far is a Belgian Triple with WLP550 which I just waiting to try.

[DeGarre]

What kind of a bitterness/flavour would Sorachi Ace bring here?

[AlphaAcidHouse]

to be honest I only used Sorachi ace to hit my desired IBU because it was the highest AA hop I had in at the time. As it is a FWH I doubt it offers any flavour after boiling for an hour but Sorachi Ace does have a lemony flavour which would go well so you could sub it out and use only SA for the hop, I reckon it would work well.

[DaveyT]

Thanks for the info; better late than never!
I decided on this in the end. It's an extract recipe so I had less to do:

OG 1.030
FG 1.004 ? (in FVs)
ABV 3.5% ?
Boil: 60 min
IBU 24
Batch size 14l
Yeast: Neale's Saison (a la Malt Miller)

DME 500g
WME 350g
Oat Malt 80g
Biscuit malt 80g
Home made Candi sugar 180g

Hops:
Flyer 10g FWH
Flyer 5g 10min
Brewer's Gold 15g 10min
Flyer 5g 5min
Brewer's Gold 15g 5min

I went on the idea that anything could be chucked in and tried oat and biscuit malts. They converted but only after 2 1/2 hours!
The batch was split into 3 FVs each holding 4.65l. I knew I would have to leave this for almost three weeks until I could bottle it so I waited 9 days before moving two brews to secondary FVs. In one I put 200g of dried mango and 20g of crystallized ginger. I re-hydrated the fruit then boiled and blended it. There's loads in there! I ended up scooping the top out to give it some room.
In the other secondary I put about a pound of fresh figs. I forgot to weigh them! They were picked in August, skinned and frozen. The final estimated weight was without skins. The third FV hasn't been touched. The empty FVs smelt so good; tart yet fruity. I think the fruit will work well. I think the figs might be the dark horse here.
I'll try and get some pics up. I have a before and I'll try and take an after one before I bottle. The mango is in a large clump at the top of the brew. Shall I scoop it all out before I bottle? It's reachable! The FVs are plastic water bottles so I'll be syphoning the beer out. Potentially this is going to be a royal pain in the ass.

[DaveyT]

Photos! I hope these aren't boxes with question marks in them, which is what normally happens when I try this!

After a week: Lovely stuff!

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Then today after 8 days in the secondaries for, left to right, mango and ginger, then fig at the back. The far right one is the unadulterated saison. I like the yeast collecting in the indentations of the bottle. The paper behind the bottles was an attempt to see how they were clearing.

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Why can I never get this right? Any advice on photos? I did what it says in the FAQ section.
EDIT: I used the Img tags and pasted the htmls in. One of which is this:
http://s903.photobucket.com/user/DaveyT ... 0.jpg.html
The other is this:
http://s903.photobucket.com/user/DaveyT ... 2.jpg.html
I've tried deleting various bits of the URL to no avail. It looks like Jim's example in the FAQ questions, but nothing's coming out. Frustrating.

[AlphaAcidHouse]

upload them to photobucket then just copy and paste the img links. That will do it.

[DaveyT]

I've edited the post to try and rectify the photos. I hope the links work. Otherwise I'm stumped.

[AlphaAcidHouse]

on photobucket on the right there is the 'links to share' box

the bottom one says img

copy and paste that into here and it will show the images directly.,

[DaveyT]

Brilliant! Thanks for you help, AAH.
All I've got to do now is bottle it. Only trouble is, I'm really sick. Playing around with experimental fruit beers is the last thing I want to do.

[AlphaAcidHouse]

looks great, please let me know how they are. I am a total Saison fiend and I love the sound of the fig one.