Cara Red vs Roasted Barley vs Rye Malt for Redness...

[RobWalker]

I'm looking at brewing a red ale. Roasted Barley is the obvious option because it's available at the LHBS a mile away, but how do the other two match up in terms of supplying a red colour?

I wouldn't mind using some rye malt, what's the colour like? I like the flavour.

Cara-Red is very difficult to get, but I'd maybe order it if the difference was astronomical.

I've also got some CaraGold and CaraMunich to use up, if those could be used to somehow improve the red colour (by adding crystal flavour without colour, for example...)

Cheers!

[barneey]

Cara3 will give you a good red colour, but IMHO the colour red is the most dfficult to get, I`ve tried more than a few experiments.

[zgoda]

Carared is just regular crystal malt with colour of ~40 EBC, nothing special here except for Weyermann's marketing dept.

Best choice would be a pinch of roasted barley, red should be at ~35 EBC but it's a hit and miss game.

[RobWalker]

that has me at 110g of Roasted Barley zgoda, if I don't use any crystal etc. 90g with 250g crystal @ 157 EBC.

does that sound about right? I've overdone the roasted barley before, and it didn't make my happy.

cheers!

[zgoda]

That number seems high for me, I'd use 250 gms crystal and 30-40 gms roast barley. This is guesstimate, and usually works in my brewhouse, iow ymmv.

[sllimeel]

I'm about to brew a Red for the first time and found this info useful.

Types of American Red Ale

West Coast versions tend to have more intense hop character and be more heavily tilted towards hop flavors than East Coast versions, which are often more balanced. In addition to the standard Red Ale, some American brewers are brewing "imperial" or "double" versions. This Imperial Red Ale style is often indistinguishable from an American IPA except that it might feature a sweeter malt character than the typical IPA.
Brewing American Red Ale

First and foremost, AAA is an American beer. Thus, select only American ingredients. This distinguishes AAA from the English beers upon which AAA is based.

MALT Choose US 2-row Pale malt for the base malt. English 2-row pale malts, such as Maris Otter, have a marked flavor profile easily discernible in the finished beer; this is due to the higher final kilning temperature used in malting. American base malts have a much more neutral profile, permitting a cleaner beer. Choose a high-quality Crystal malt from 40 to 80 degrees Lovibond for the necessary crystal/caramel flavor and color contribution. 10-15% of the grist should be comprised of crystal malt. A small amount of Munich or Vienna malt can be used to emphasize maltiness; target around 5% of the total grist. Some commercial examples also use a small amount of CaraPils. If a deep red color is desired, a tiny amount of roasted barley can be used for coloring purposes only. If it can be tasted in the finished beer, you've used too much; no more than 0.5-1% of the total grist. Better to use a small amount of darker crystal malt (120L) than roasted barley if you want a darker color, though.

HOPS As with the grist, choose only domestic hops varieties in AAA. Most commercial examples use one or a blend of the "Big C"s - Cascade, Chinook, Centennial - as part of the defining character. Avoid domestic varieties based on European ancestors (Willamette is a Fuggle cultivar, as Liberty is Hallertau).

YEAST A clean-fermenting ale yeast is required. Most brewers prefer Wyeast 1056 (go figure) or White Labs "Cal V". US-05 is a good choice for a dry yeast. Controlled fermentation, to avoid excessive ester production, is also highly desirable.

Here is David Brockington's general outline, based on conversations with brewers directly involved with the development of the style:

Color from light red to deep copper, stopping just short of brown.
Firm to emphatic crystal-malt character
Distinctively American hops; bitterness moderate to high (25-45 IBUs); hops flavor and aroma moderate to intense
OG 1.045 - 1.065, finishing dry.

[RobWalker]

Hm, this is turning into a toughie!

I'm definitely looking for an amber coloured head, if that's any use. I'm not looking for roasted barley flavour, just colour. I thnk I have access to high colour crystal, EBC 400, would that be useful?

thanks for that info sllimeel, plenty to think about, but I am looking for a somewhat malty irish red base more than american.

[sllimeel]

Hm, this is turning into a toughie!

I'm definitely looking for an amber coloured head, if that's any use. I'm not looking for roasted barley flavour, just colour. I thnk I have access to high colour crystal, EBC 400, would that be useful?

thanks for that info sllimeel, plenty to think about, but I am looking for a somewhat malty irish red base more than american.

Found this recipe for an irish red that may help? http://www.beersmith.com/Recipes2/recipe_267.htm

[leedsbrew]

would this be red enough for you?

That is a calculated 11SRM 92% pale ale malt and 8% Fawcett's dark crystal.

cheers

LB

[DRB]

You can add roast barley in 10 min from the end of the mash if you want the colour from it and not the flavour.

[AnthonyD]

I got a complex coloured browny/red recently from 1.5% Roasted Barely and 5.5% Cara-rye. Lovely tasting beer too!

[barneey]

[sllimeel]

Nice colour Barneey.

[RobWalker]

thanks for the tips guys. after some umming and arring I relied on 70g roasted barley and 250g caramunich for the colour this time...this may not be bang on, but it's looking good so far!

[DRB]

That looks great barney. Fancy sharing the grain ratios to get that colour.