RIMS users - tips for using a RIMS?

[Frothy]

Hi all

Must say I'm pleased to see how things have progressed over the years, I remember when people were trying to make RIMS systems out of 150w towel rail heaters and debating where to put the probe in the mash tun. Nearly 10 years on looks like there is pretty good consensus on the design and everything looks a lot more straight forward. So thanks to all those pioneers

There are a few potential benefits (fingers crossed) that have brought me round to the idea of trying a RIMS:

a) I've come into suitable offcuts to do the job on the cheap
b) My favourite recipe is my wheat beer using 50% raw wheat (crushed) so controlled stepped mashing is a bonus.
c) Growing interest in Belgian beers and the stepped mash really benefits for a high attenuation.
d) Getting anything up to temperature in the man-shed & keeping it there at this time of year is a real battle! especially the mash.
e) I'm hoping that by getting to mash out at 80oc I may see some more efficient and consistent sparging.
f) hoping that the recirculation may help to some degree reduce the impact of any dead spots in my tun (which is a cube.)

My Question to all those pioneers is - please could you lend some advice on how best to run her?

My mash tun is a 57L Igloo Ice-Cube
Pump is 16 L/min Shurflo heat tolerant to 85oC
Planning for first run on a wheat beer soon.
Starting at 50oC
Through 60, 65, 70 (20 minutes each) and mashout at 80oC

Few general questions:
* Do you dough in to the lowest temperature (as normal hot infusion) or start the mash from cold?
* How best to set her up with autotuning? I don't really want to waste a whole mash to do this, whilst it autotunes for hours.
* How much water to grain ration is good?
* Any delay settings useful on the PID?
* Flow rate of the pump?
* Keep recirculating during fly-sparging? or switch the RIMS off.
* Is it nessary to Clean element afterwards? i.e. any issues with residual sugar burning onto the element.

Here she is: RIMS unit Cost me about £35 after I sold off the redundant Backer Thermostat for £5 on eBay. It's a 4" scrap offcut of 316 ss tube. Ends made from offcuts of 2mm sheet with holes cut with Q-Max cutters, the 2 1/4" boss is from eBay and the lot has been tigged together by a mate for a few beers. Element is 3kw 14" and thermowell from MrLard. Total volume 2.86L.


must say I'm very greatful to this forum for all the help, advice & inspiration over the years

cheers
Frothy

[barneey]

I`ll start you of...

Mash/dough in at just under your first temp - raise the temp to your initial mash temp using the Rims.

Make sure you have good control over your pump - either electronically or by throttle, if you dont ant the flow rate is too high a stuck mash will result. OR build yourself an underback.

I use a probe directly after the element controlled with a PID + another probe in the MT to measure mash temps.

Always clean the element and tube after use - if you have a low density element though you shouldnt find any burnt on material.

Have Fun

[Belter]

I'm just about to buy a rims tube from MrLard so this is interesting to me also.

How does an underback work with a Rims Clive? I imagine that would affect heat loss and you'd have to match the flow into the underback with the speed of the pump?

[barneey]

The best way to learn is to use your system in the first instance - without an underback, what I`ve found that as there is very little wort space under the FB in the Mash Tun.

This means there isn't a lot of wort to pump, pump it too fast (no pump control) and you will start sucking on the Mash, the Mash might then channel or more than likely get stuck.

If you place an underback under the Mash Tun - fed with gravity you wont get a stuck mash - this then leaves you with wort in the UB - fit a float switch in the UB to control pumping the wort to the Rims tube - just make sure you have enough wort in the system to cover the mash + fill the UB. The only other thing to think about though is if the pump isn't on as the UB is still filling with wort, you might have wort sitting in the Rims Tube heating away, which you don't want. So again careful pump control with PID control is required.

I`m fairly happy with my system that an UB isn't required (yet), but you have to consider "raising temp time V flow of liquid"

The BreadMaker project I made was essentially a big Rims tube Mash Tun, the biggest advantage of Mashing upside down is if you get a stuck mash, its very easy to solve the problem - just switch the pump off V a conventional system where you have to get the mash paddle out.

So Pump control is the answer / coupled with good temperature control.

There is also one other experiment I want to trial - that is raising the FB further off the base to increase the dead/wort space.

Have Fun

[bigrichlock]

Hello,

Looks like you are almost there with the set up, im only concern is ur element i would have gone for a IP55 enclosure as you could have water/work near live electrics.

The other safety idea i have incorporated is having a contacter running from the pump power supply to the element control contactor, if the pump is not running the element gets no power, this means there is no way you can scorcher the wort, well lets just say a lot less likely.

I use a liquor to grain ratio of 3:1 but this does not include the foundation liquor (whats under the false bottom), my mash tun has a diameter of 500mm and the volume under the false bottom is about 7L, although im not sure the volume is the important issue its more the area of the false bottom vs grain bed depth. I have yet to have a problem of a stuck mash and even if i did it would be easily fixed by underletting (reverse the pump and pump into the bottom of the mash tun).

As for temperatures do some research as to what you want to achieve then target accordingly, there is no point just doing steps at every other temp just because you can, if you want to do a protein rest do it at the correct temp and time etc etc, in normal ale production step mashes are pretty pointless as the malt is well modified and conversion is easily achieved.

Saying that my typical steps are; mash in aiming for 62deg (mashing in using 70+deg water can de-nature the enzymes) ramp up to 64-70deg depending on what i want to achieve with the main rest, then i will ramp again to 74deg ish for mashout.

The best thing about the rims is consistency/repeatability, and lovely clear Wort going into the boiller.

Cheers

Rich

[bigrichlock]

Oh and flow rate - normally about 3-4L a min on a with about 50L of liquor and grain in the tun but can increase up to 7-8L with out problems.

Rich

[barneey]

Good point about the UB and being able to underlet (back) to get things unstuck . something I cant do.

[Frothy]

Cool thanks for the tips so far! The more the merrier.

Barney - I got a super-budget Randal that I knocked up (pretty sure this is the american name for an underback) so will try connecting the pump up directly to the mash-tun first and any trouble will switch to the Randal.

Thanks Bigrichlock - have taken onboard your comments about flow control so I've added a ball valve to the RIMS inlet port so I can control this best.
Haven't got any cool relays to protect the element when the pump is off but the PID controller box has a zero to switch the element off and keep the PID display on, I use a remote control unit for the pumps (uber health and safety.) I did some research after your advice and found this guy here talking about a similar relay setup so that element can't run without the pump being on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYmig9D ... 8w&index=4

Having previously seen the thread about a burnt-out element in a RIMS tube she is now mounted vertically on the brew-bench. (below the mash-tun) to avoid any air-locks.
also thinking about adding a 1/2" Y-strainer to the outflow on the Mash Tun to try and keep any bits of husk & debris out of the RIMS.
PT100 on order from MrLard to replace the thermowell and make more direct wort contact for the temperature sensing.

The man shed is so cold and I'm looking forward to heating this baby up for some brewing shortly

[Subsonic]

Sorry just seen this, been busy chainsawing wood and malting barley lol. Your RIMS looks pretty similar to mine. I use it to heat the mash water, then I dough in below my first target temp. I have a keg with folding stainless false bottoms. I autotune if need be at a lower temp, then ramp up to my desired first step, in reality I rarely bother autotuning as all my brews are similar. The sensor is right on the outlet of the heater. The heater is protected by a thermal switch in case the pump stopped. ADM built it for me its actually an off the shelf self enclosed 3kw water heater so it has the thermal cutoff as part of the heater, but he built all the PID stuff as well. 2.5 litres to a kg grain is what I use. I have a marchmay so have to really throttle it back I guess its 2-3 litres per min. The tun is well insulated so often I turn it off and then stick it back on a bit later as temp doesn't change much. Step mashes are easy with it and yes I am a wheat beer man too After mashing, I switch the rims inlet and outlet and use it to heat my sparge water. If you put valves on it you can do this easily and one extra as a drain so you don't lose any precious wort! I fly sparge but you could batch sparge easy enough. With the rims disconnected from the mash tun (remember I've got two pumps) I can pump wort to the boiler while fly sparging to the mash tun. No problems with scorching at all. After use I don't need to clean it as it was used for the sparge water, I just drain it down. I need to put valves on mine, mine is just connected with silicone hoses so its a bit of jiggery pokery to switch hoses, I aim to change to valves. its a great bit of kit mind and yes you guessed it - clear wort with all that recirculation! Sub

[Frothy]

OK so making some progress here before my first brew. Thankyou Sub

Thankyou to ASD for some advice via PM - I haven't seen this covered anywhere else so including it here. HOpe you don't mind ASD:

Basically, use a good temperature controller, and don't suck too hard on the pump, or else your mash will stick.

Also, and I think this is The Most Important, keep your flow path as short as possible! And as insulated as possible! Keep EVERYTHING as insulated as possible!

You are trying to make a tightly controlled biological reactor, after all.

My mash Tun currently has a 22mm copper slotted bottom. On Belters thread here
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63643is seems that you really need a false bottom in the mash tun to prevent compacting the grain bed. Short of any other suggestions I'm going to autotune the PID with the RIMS just using my current mash tun loaded up with water and no grain, to see how she behaves for a start. I don't want to waste a whole brew so looking at false bottom solutions for my current tun before going full mash.

[Belter]

My stainless steel is in the post. I was hoping to finish my new false bottom tomorrow but I can't now.

I autotuned with water but I reckon the parameters would be completely different with malt as the viscosity will increase the temp (I'm only guessing here no experience). I intend on wasting grain. Although in theory just autotune on the brewday. Autotuning should take about 10mins not hours.