DRB Bramling Beauty / Yeast 'Healthy Debate'

[Wez]

I'm having a go at DRB's Bramling Beauty this weekend. Cheers DRB

Information from Beer Smith :

4200.00 gm Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 85.5 %
270.00 gm Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 5.5 %
220.00 gm Barley, Flaked (3.3 EBC) Grain 4.5 %
220.00 gm Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 4.5 %
52.00 gm Bramling Cross [6.00%] (15 min) Hops 14.5 IBU
17.00 gm Bramling Cross [6.00%] (90 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
19.00 gm Bramling Cross [6.00%] (1 min) Hops 0.5 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [Starter 25 ml] Yeast-Ale

75% Efficiency
25L Batch
Target OG 1044
25EBU

Look OK any suggestions for improvements?

[Vossy1]

Good luck with the brew Wez

I quite fancy this myself as an introduction to the old Brambling

[J_P]

Watch out for the haze ladies

On a more serious note I had a bottle of something or other the other night hopped with bramling cross and it tasted of bitter oranges, It could be a hop for a dark chocolate wintery beer

[Wez]

Watch out for the haze ladies

On a more serious note I had a bottle of something or other the other night hopped with bramling cross and it tasted of bitter oranges, It could be a hop for a dark chocolate wintery beer

I used it to dry hop a Great Eastern Ale once and loved it although my memory of it is hazy now, looking forward to this one.

[DRB]

Tasty brew that .

[SteveD]

1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [Starter 25 ml] Yeast-Ale

25EBU

Look OK any suggestions for improvements?

(1) Double the yeast quantity, at least. I just used 3 packs of Nottingham in 24L of a 1059 Bitter, looking for good attenuation. It went to 1010 in 6 days at 17c. More yeast gets the job done.
(2) 25 EBU seems a little tame. Go for 30-35 EBU. You can get this by upping the 90 mins addition.
(3) Don't let it get over 20c in the fermenter

[Vossy1]

S04 will waste a 1044 in 2-3 days max....

[SteveD]

Why would you want to double or even treble the quantity of yeast for a 1044 gravity beer when 11g is deemed sufficient, at least by the 'mrmalty.com' pitching rate calculator ?

Because there is a difference between 'sufficient' and 'ideal'. The less the yeast has to multiply up the better - less lag, less stress, less chance of mutation, off tastes, and poor attenuation. In spite of what the dried yeast people might advocate, 11g isn't really enough, never mind 6g a la Muntons, etc. It might well ferment out the wort, but it will do it better and more reliably if there's more. Ask a commercial brewer - their pitching rates are much higher than ours (assuming 1x 11g dose/ 22-25L)

...we're not fettered by brewing accountants, remember? That doesn't just apply to malt The brewer makes the wort, the yeast makes the beer. We spend all day carefully making a wort to be ideal for the yeast to make great beer....and then we skimp on the yeast!!

[Chiltern Brewer]

That amber malt and flaked barley should give you some nice grainy/biscuity/slightly sour flavours that IMO work better with a higher gravity brew i.e. > 4.5% ABV.

[SteveD]

In spite of what the dried yeast people might advocate, 11g isn't really enough, never mind 6g a la Muntons, etc. It might well ferment out the wort, but it will do it better and more reliably if there's more. Ask a commercial brewer - their pitching rates are much higher than ours (assuming 1x 11g dose/ 22-25L)

Although think Jamil Zainasheff akaMr Malty can go over the top, pretty much (if not) everyone seems to agree he knows his stuff...

Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 9.5 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct.

Apply this to 5 imp gals of 1044 wort, the ideal would be 186 billion cells which works out at around 11g or 1 x 11.5g packet (based on a 6 month old packet). It wont hurt to pitch more, i've done it myself to try and cut lag time but I get the same results, around 2hrs making a small starter during the boil (which Jamil doesn’t advocate with dried yeasts).
There is also an article in one of the CBA journals than suggests that there are plenty of cells in 1 sachet of dried yeast, Nottingham having a greater cell count than Safale04. An interesting point they also mention is that Safale04 requires more aeration which is why I employed the neighbors aquarium pump to save my arms during my last brew.

Daab, what you omitted was that the same CBA article, by David Edge, then went on to say..."However if you want to get your fermentation off to a flying start, or make a bigger batch, you can use more than one packet or make a starter. Pitching plenty of yeast in good condition will allow the yeast to beat the bacteria to the sugar, gets the alcohol and acid levels up quickly (repelling bugs) and is strongly recommended for those that have off flavours in their beer"

Gillian Grafton recommends 2x 11g packs - the more the better.
Ant Hayes - Ale- 2 packs up to OG1060. More for stronger Ale
4 packs for lagers at 12-15c, double again for lagers below 12c

A point constantly stressed is that dosage rates on packs of dry yeast apply to factory fresh yeast. Time and storage conditions have a bearing on live yeast count within the pack. By the time you use it there might be half the number of active cells.

My point is this...yes, one pack will ferment your beer, with the gods on your side. But with MORE it will be BETTER. With yeast, more is definitely more So why skimp on it when dried yeast is cheap?

[Matt]

You wont be disappointed Wez. DRB's recipe is spot on as it is.

[Scooby]

(1) Double the yeast quantity, at least. I just used 3 packs of Nottingham in 24L of a 1059 Bitter, looking for good attenuation. It went to 1010 in 6 days at 17c. More yeast gets the job done.

I'm not as well read as you two but when using dried yeast I rehydrate and use some wort to make a starter with 2 packs for all the reasons SteveD gives.

[SteveD]

The pitching rate calculator describes the 'proper' pitching rate based on lab experiments, the point is at this rate, the yeast wont be under stress and wont produce off flavour, that's the point of the pitching rate calculator. 5g often proves to be sufficient but 5g will be stressed, 11.5g (assuming these experiments are valid) wont.

Pitching an active culture made during the brew will get a batch going in 2 hrs or less, surely this is sufficiently short a lag time to provide protection for the beer? 2 sachets are certainly required in a 1060 wort so Hayes has got that right but then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out, lager fermented below 12 deg and depending on the gravity requires 2, that's on the Fermentis website, 1 sachet of fresh dried yeast is more than enough, even a 6 month old sachet will suffice any more wont hurt but is unnecessary in a 1044 ale wort.

That's fine, Daab. As you and I have both said, one sachet will do it. But....I'd rather draw on the wisdom of highly experienced home brewers and if they say more is better, I'd rather go with that than some dry lab results. We don't know if the gear and techniques used in the experiments are representative of the equipment used at home. What we do know is that the likes of Edge, Grafton, and Hayes, are using home brewing gear and techniques.

The way I see it ultimately is.... more yeast can improve the beer, and can't hurt. For the sake of only £1.50 why would we NOT do it?

[SteveD]

Ant(hony) Hayes. South African Homebrewer, national competition winner, head of SA's Wort Hogs Homebrewing organisation, beer judge, etc. Lives over here now.

[Vossy1]

Looks like I had very stressed yeast in my Old Rambler then

1070 to 1011 in 3 days...tasted fine from secondary though

It's still got another couple of weeks before it gets tapped...I'll know more then

Got to edit this as I was reading the wrong recipe sheet.

It got to 1016 after 5 days and 1011 after 10

Not only the yeast that's stressed