AG22 Vienna Simcoe Biscuit American IPA

[NobbyIPA]

as you know i love biscuit malt and simcoe
so to get a super biscuity flavour off the biscuit malt that i do already
i am adding a kilo of Vienna malt to this one for that extra toasty flavour that Vienna gives so thought these would complement each other

[Barley Water]

Everything looks fine but I just have to ask; are you not going to dry hop? Off the top of my head I can't think of any of the popular American IPA's that aren't dry hopped.

[NobbyIPA]

absolutely dry hopping with 100gram simcoe

[YeastWhisperer]

I am with Barley Water on this one. Most modern American IPAs do not have hop additions that occur much more than 30 minutes before the end of boil. The bulk of the hop additions are late additions that occur in the last ten minutes of the boil, after heat is removed, or after primary fermentation is complete. That's how one obtains huge hop flavor and aroma without overpowering back of the mouth bitterness.

Additionally, an O.G. of 1.056 barely qualifies as an American IPA. Most American craft beer drinkers would consider the beer in your recipe to be an American Pale Ale. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale has an O.G. of 13.1 Plato, which translates to specific gravity of 1.053 (http://www.sierranevada.com/beer/year-round/pale-ale). The lion's share of American IPAs have an O.G. of 1.062 and greater. Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale has an O.G. of 16 Plato, which translates to specific gravity of 1.065 (http://www.sierranevada.com/beer/season ... ration-ale). An American IPA should have an ABV is that is firmly in the 6% to 7% range (IIPA takes over at 7%).

Sixty IBUs in a 1.056 beer is going to result overpowering back of the mouth bitterness. I would shoot for a bitterness level in the 40 IBU range, which will give you a bitterness unit to gravity unit (BU:GU) ratio of around 0.7 (a BU:GU ratio of around 0.7 is the sweet spot for this style). Bitterness is not hop flavor or aroma, which are the hallmarks of American Pale Ale and American IPA.

Here's my recommendation to get that big hop aroma and flavor that is found in modern American Pale Ale and American IPA using the same amount of hops that you used in your recipe:

40g Simcoe 13% 30 minutes
25g Simcoe 13% steep for twenty minutes after chilling to 75C
30g Simcoe 13% dry hop in serving cask/keg, or rack to a secondary fermentation vessel after primary fermentation is complete, add this hop charge, and allow the hops to work their magic for a week before bottling


You will be surprised at how much more hop forward the beer will be if you follow the hop schedule outlined above. The beer will have firm back of the mouth bitterness, but it will not be bitter to the point of being astringent or harsh. As I stated above, bitterness is not hop flavor or aroma. It is a perception that is sensed on the back of the tongue. Hop flavor is sensed on the front of the tongue (it's actually a combination of taste and smell).

[NobbyIPA]

yup my zero hops are always seeped held at 80c for 20 30 mins

the IBU's are planned to be 60ish as 50 or below is the norm for me and just want a wee more bitterness to this brew as i tasted some 90+IBU highly hopped American ales

90 min
30
10
zero works well for me

[oz11]

It is a perception that is sensed on the back of the tongue. Hop flavor is sensed on the front of the tongue (it's actually a combination of taste and smell).

'Tis a myth ==> http://www.livescience.com/7113-tongue- ... unked.html

[YeastWhisperer]

It is a perception that is sensed on the back of the tongue. Hop flavor is sensed on the front of the tongue (it's actually a combination of taste and smell).

'Tis a myth ==> http://www.livescience.com/7113-tongue- ... unked.html

No so much a myth as an oversimplification; however, iso-alpha bitterness is definitely perceived in the back of the mouth more than any other area of mouth. It lingers long after the other beer components have faded.

[eguin]

Looks like my tongue after six pints of brewdog!

[YeastWhisperer]

yup my zero hops are always seeped held at 80c for 20 30 mins

the IBU's are planned to be 60ish as 50 or below is the norm for me and just want a wee more bitterness to this brew as i tasted some 90+IBU highly hopped American ales

90 min
30
10
zero works well for me

I would not pay attention to claimed bitterness levels on many American ales. The claimed bitterness levels of today are like audio amplifier wattage and THD ratings in the seventies (one beer claims to have 300 IBUs of bitterness). Even the hardcore hop heads out there will not drink a 90 IBU beer unless it has a huge malt backbone to offset the bitterness, and brewers cannot afford to brew beer that only sells to very select group of customers in a market that only represents 8% over the overall beer market in the United States.. Brewing in the United States has become a stunt. Craft Breweries are treating huge late additions as if they were added at the beginning of the boil. It's all marketing.

What matters in a beer is the bitterness unit to gravity unit ratio. Beers with BU:GU ratios greater than 0.5 are going to be perceived as being progressively more bitter as the ratio increases just as beers with a BU:GU ratio of less than 0.5 are going to be perceived as being progressively more malty/sweet as the BU:GU ratio approaches zero. A 1.056 beer with a true 60 IBUs of bitterness has a BU:GU ratio of 1.071, which puts it at the sharp to the point of being astringent level of bitterness. Sierra Nevada claims that Celebration Ale has an IBU rating of 65, which gives the beer a BU:GU ratio of 1. I have yet to meet a brewer or a craft beer drinker who thinks that Celebration Ale beer is not intensely bitter.

Here are few other Sierra Nevada beers:

Torpedo IPA, 17 Plato (1.070), 65 IBUs, BU:GU ratio of 0.93, like a hop explosion
Hoptimum DIPA, 22.8 Plato (1.098), 100 IBUs, BU:GU ratio of 1.02, an intensely bitter, very strong, big beer
Bigfoot, 23 Plato ( 1.096), 90 IBUs, BU:GU ratio of 0.94, a very bitter, very strong, big malt beer

I used Sierra Nevada's beers as reference points because Sierra Nevada is the gold standard when it comes to American craft ale. The yeast that Ken Grossman and company adopted for their brewery (Siebel Bry 96) is the gold standard yeast strain for American craft ale (a.k.a., "Chico," 1056, WLP001, and US-05).

By the way, are you bagging your hops (or constraining your hops in a hop spider) during the boil?

[NobbyIPA]

and US-05).

By the way, are you bagging your hops (or constraining your hops in a hop spider) during the boil?[/quote]

don't use bags just straight in



and using 05
brewing this morning

[Barley Water]

I would have to agree, you really need to pay attention to the ratio of IBU/O.G. One of my complaints about craft beer over here is that most of the stuff is very boozy since of course more is better (it's a Texas thing). Anyway, I started seeing so called "sessionable" IPA's which on the surface seemed like a good idea. I finally picked up a six-pack in that style from a very reputable west coast brewery. Long story short, I really don't care for it. Sure it's hoppy but it also tastes thin and the hops come off really grassy because there is not enough malt behind them. I really think brewing really fine beers is all about balance and it makes a very big difference how all the flavors come together. Also, I don't think any flavor (either malt or hop) needs to slam you in the face to make a really fine beverage.

[YeastWhisperer]

Wow! You really do like intensely bitter beer. Most of the pales and bitters that I brew have BU:GU ratios in 0.6 to 0.75 range. I brewed 5.5 gallons of golden ale with a BU:GU ratio of 0.37 for sharing with friends and family at parties over the summer. I used German pils malt, so that the beer would have a clean malty backbone. With an O.G. of 1.062, an F.G. of 1.016, and an ABV of 6%, it isn't small beer by any stretch of the imagination; however, it is a good training wheel beer. As I stated earlier, the entire craft beer market makes up 8% of the beer that is sold in the U.S. Most Americans think 5% ABV lager with 12 IBUs of bitterness when they think beer.

[NobbyIPA]

Mash on at 66 c

[YeastWhisperer]

Mash on at 66 c

An expected F.G. of 1.011 seems about right for that mash temperature with Bry 96 (which originally came from the last standing industrial-scale ale brewery on the East Coast). I seem to get a point or two more attenuation than most people because I mostly use cultured yeast that I grow from slant (slope); therefore, I usually mash-in at 68C.

[NobbyIPA]

smooth brew day









seeping hops at moment