Harveys Brett Strain

[GarethYoung]

I've been experimenting with brett a fair bit recently, and trying to get my hands on interesting strains. A friend is bringing a bottle of Harveys Imperial Stout up to my house, from which I'm going to try culturing their brett strain (I don't have any sophisticated equipment, so this will just involve putting the dregs into a small amount of wort and stepping it up - no plating, sadly).

Does anyone have any experience with this, or any information about the brett strain they use e.g. is it their own, or do they buy it from somewhere?

Cheers!

[Eadweard]

Apparently it's something that lurks in their pitching yeast (which is nominally two strain). After six months in the tank the Brett suddenly gets its act together and starts growing.

[GarethYoung]

Yes, I'd heard that. I've not experienced it, but people who live nearer the brewery and have regular access to the Best Bitter say that, if you hold on to a cask, it can get a little bretty, which sounds interesting! If it's part of the standard strain, which they've been using for a long time, that suggests it's their own brett, rather than one of the commercially available ones you might find at White Labs or Wyeast or whatever. Having said that, Brett C is alleged to have come from an 'English Stock Ale'. Don't suppose it could be that? I love Harveys Imperial Stout, but I don't think I've tasted it since I've become better at identifying different brett strains, so I can't say from memory whether it's similar to Brett C.

[Capn Ahab]

Saying brett c like it's a single strain is like saying saccharomyces cerevisae is all one strain. Only more inaccurate.

According to Chad Yakobsen there are thousands of strains of brett out there, loads more than brewers yeast. And in American Sour Beers, Michael Tonsmeire says there are two basic species (?), b. anomalus (aka brett c) and b. bruxellensis (aka brett lambicus), but obviously with a huge variety of strains. You only have to think about the recent explosion of brett strains being offered by yeast manufacturers, plenty of which are labelled 'brett b'.

Whatever Harveys have in their pitching strain(s) could be anything, and that's the interesting thing! Give it a bang.

Now I really want to try their imp stout.

[GarethYoung]

You're quite right about the different strains available. By 'Brett C', I meant the specific strain marketed that way by White Labs, which they say is isolated from an English Stock Ale.

I'll give it a bash. The bottle I'm getting is about 4 years old, but there should still be some brett cells kicking around in there. If you haven't had the stout, get some! I think it's the best imperial stout in the world.

I'll post with results once I've tried culturing it.

[seymour]

...By 'Brett C', I meant the specific strain marketed that way by White Labs, which they say is isolated from an English Stock Ale...

In the broadest sense, any and all Brett strains could be considered British and for the same reason. The genus was first isolated by the Danish Carlsberg lab while troubleshooting spoilage agents in English Old Ale, hence the latin "Brett". I wouldn't read any more than that into White Labs' marketing claim.

Good luck with your bottle culture, that's a cool experiment.

On a somewhat related note: I tasted a couple beers over the weekend fermented with Brettanomyces claussenii, which had a really odd grape candy, black cherry kinda flavour. I'd never attributed that to brett before.

[Capn Ahab]

I've got a starter of white labs brett c sitting on the kitchen counter that I haven't worked out what to do with yet. Problem is I'm all out of base malt and our club order won't come in for a fortnight (and I refuse to pay online prices), so all I can think of is doing half-half Munich and wheat with some spicy German Noble hops and fermenting it warm. I'd love to get a black cherry note, but I suspect that's down to a reaction between brett and a darker crystal malt. What was the beer in question?

And where can I get some four year old Harvey s imp stout Gareth?!

[seymour]

I've got a starter of white labs brett c sitting on the kitchen counter that I haven't worked out what to do with yet...

Perfect, that's even the exact supplier they used.

...all I can think of is doing half-half Munich and wheat with some spicy German Noble hops and fermenting it warm. I'd love to get a black cherry note, but I suspect that's down to a reaction between brett and a darker crystal malt...

Brew whatcha got, that'll be delicious. Some people would say you need a "base malt" but they'd be wrong. Munich is diastatic, and even if it wasn't, Wheat Malt has even more enzymes than most pale barley malts. Go for it!

But I agree with you, the black cherry note was probably an interplay between the brett and this particular beer's small Chocolate Malt and Blackprinz additions.

Don't despair. Roast your own Chocolate Malt:

• 1. Determine the weight you need, and increase by half again to account for evaporation, accidental spills during stirring, etc.
  2. Place that amount of Munich Malt in a bowl and cover with luke-warm water for 30 minutes. Open windows and get a draft going.
  3. Pour-off any excess water and spread on a baking sheet(s) in a 150-160°F oven for 2 hours, checking and stirring periodically throughout
  4. Increase to 250°F for 30 minutes
  5. Increase to 300°F for 20 minutes
  6. Increase to 325°F for 15 minutes
  7. Increase to 400°F for 60-90 minutes, or until desired darkness is reached or your house is so full of smoke your loved ones scream at you to stop.
  8. Some people say you must let that mellow for a few weeks, but I'm not fully convinced. I've used it immediately with fine results.

That's it. It's not hard. A bit time-consuming, but you can do other stuff in the meantime. You can do it, and your homebrewed beer with homeroasted malt will be that much your own personal accomplishment.

[GarethYoung]

A friend is coming up from London with a bottle, so I think he's buying it from a bottle shop round those parts. I'll check!

Lots of brett isn't British - it's found all over the world, and in lots of alcoholic drinks all over the world, for example in lambic. The lab that named it called it 'brett' because it was thought to be the element that gave British strong ales their distinctive character, but it's still found independently in wines, ciders, beers etc. everywhere. The labs often give some suggestions as to where they got the strains without actually naming breweries like: 'From a brewery in Essen, Belgium' *hint hint*. Some of the tips are more specific than others, but I suspect, if they say so, that they really did get the strain from a British stock ale.

[Capn Ahab]

One of my favourite wines had a distinct brett b tobacco spice and horsiness - chateau musar from Lebanon!

[seymour]

Lots of brett isn't British - it's found all over the world, and in lots of alcoholic drinks all over the world, for example in lambic. The lab that named it called it 'brett' because it was thought to be the element that gave British strong ales their distinctive character, but it's still found independently in wines, ciders, beers etc. everywhere. The labs often give some suggestions as to where they got the strains without actually naming breweries like: 'From a brewery in Essen, Belgium' *hint hint*. Some of the tips are more specific than others, but I suspect, if they say so, that they really did get the strain from a British stock ale.

That's true of course, I'm just saying don't read too much into White Labs' comment. Many times what we homebrewers interpret as "hint hint" is just our own wishful thinking. Maybe you're right, there's just no way to know for sure, so I wouldn't use that information to prove nor disprove any theory. That's all I'm saying.

Even if that particular strain was definitely derived from an English Old Ale, it could be any old bottle from any English brewery. Harvey's isn't even the only one known for multi-strain yeast blends. Adnams, Ringwood, Theakston, Guinness, Marstons, Boddington, Manns, Samuel Webster & Wilsons, Bass, Worthington, Mighty Oak all spring to mind, not to mention all the other historic possibilities...

Whatever the case, you'll likely reculture the real Harvey's version, and you could eventually brew a batch to split into two fermentors, then compare and contrast for yourself. Cheers, and best of luck!

[Trefoyl]

Olde Suffolk is the classic old ale I immediately think of, mixed with a strong old vatted brett ale but then pasteurized, blah.

[GarethYoung]

Right. My friend brought two bottles for me. Not sure what year they were, but it said best before 2015 on the cap, I think. He got them from the Royal Oak in London, apparently. The beers were absolutely lovely and the dregs are now in a tiny glass fermenter with an airlock. They've been there a couple of days and there appears to be a tiny bit of activity, so fingers crossed!

I'd love to get some strains from Olde Suffolk too. It shows up on cask on very rare occasions, so I'll need to try and get some next time, and bring a vial for capturing some!

[GarethYoung]

After some reading, it turns out that the Harvey's strain doesn't contain brett at all. The wild yeast which is producing the 'bretty' flavours is, apparently, a strain of Debaryomyces Hansenii. This is a very weird strain which, because it can live in up to 24% saline environments, is more often used for making cheese or sausage. Supposedly it can metabolise, among other things, lactic acid and soluble starch, which is interesting. There's pretty much zero information on this yeast's use in brewing though, as you'd expect, there is some mention of it being one of the many creatures that turns up in lambic in small quantities. Some of the information that's around strikes me as odd: some places say it's a killer strain, but then it's part of Harvey's house culture, which contains standard sacch strains, and it's one of thousands of other strains which turn up in lambic. Killer strains, as far as I know, tend to very quickly become the dominant bug when they're put in with other things. Also odd that it turns up in lambic without eating all the lactic acid in the beer. Anyway, lots of experimenting to be done!

I emailed the brewer to see if they'd be willing to give me any information about it.

Pretty excited about experimenting with such an unusual and weird strain. Assuming culturing goes well, I definitely want to try doing a 100% debaryomyces beer - probably just a demijohn-full. Then I'll start blending it with other beers, seeing what happens when I add it to sours etc.

Definitely some good fermentation going - pretty cool, bretty-looking pellicle on this chap. I'll probably step it up today and check it's not infected with lacto or something.

[Hanglow]

Sounds interesting and be sure to keep us updated!

That stout is one of my favourites