Cask breather with a polykeg

[Pcpogo]

I've purchased a couple of a polykegs which appear great.

I currently have a hand pump set up with a cornie keg and cask breather hooked up to my gas bottle to put a co2 blanket on the beer, which works really well.

I tried using the cask breather with the polykeg and it doesn't seem to work at all. Is it because the polykeg uses the dip tub which goes right to the bottom or am I missing something.?

[hebbstar]

Hmm I wonder if it's something to do with how rigid the Polykeg is? It may be easier for the keg to deform rather than trigger the aspirator. With a corny the keg is rigid so will intake from the cask breather even if there is an internal pressure.

Does this make sense?

Cheers

[asd]

http://www.franklinbrew.org/wp/?page_id=336

This guy uses a fixed pressure propane regulator - I've looked into it, but not tried it - those in the UK are at 37Mbar, which is approx 1/2 an atmosphere -EDITactually 0.5 PSI- this is much better than 1/2 Atm, which is aboiut 7.5 PSI, so if the Polykeg is deforming under suction pressure, this MIGHT be a way of applying a little tiny bit of positive pressure, as well as being cheaper than a cask breather. £6-7 on Fleabay!

[Pcpogo]

Heb,

That sounds like a possible cause. That and the fact I think the gas intake may be under liquid.

Asd,
That's worth a look.

I've just put the gas straight to the keg at 3psi and it seems to work ok. The beer engine is about 18" higher than the keg itself.

[rpt]

Is there any need to use a cask breather with a keg? Why not just set a low pressure? A check valve is needed but these are cheaper than cask breathers.

[Dave S]

I've bought a 37 mBar LPG reg for intended use as a cask breather. The thing which is bothering me is how the higher pressure applied between serving sessions will be vented when switching over to the regulator. I believe the purpose made breathers deal with this, but does the LPG regulator?

[rpt]

Why do you need to apply higher pressure between sessions? Can't the gas just be at a constant pressure?

[Dave S]

Why do you need to apply higher pressure between sessions? Can't the gas just be at a constant pressure?

That's what I initially thought, but several folk reckon that maintaining the pressure at 37 mBars is so near to atmospheric that the gas in the beer will come out of solution and cause it to go flat. I'm completely new to this side of things, so am feeling my way very cautiously.

[paulg]

I use a proper cask breather on my setup with a JG valve in the line between the breather and the cask .I close this valve between servings.This stops gas escaping backwards via the breather vent.
With the lpg regulator you would not have this problem,I find the beer keeps its condition whilst the cask(on your case polykeg) remains in use at least 3 weeks in my case.
my concern would be if the cask was not properly vented before connecting the regulator that the beer would be too fizzy as it would not be able to release excess pressure which a true cask breather can do.

[Dave S]

I use a proper cask breather on my setup with a JG valve in the line between the breather and the cask .I close this valve between servings.This stops gas escaping backwards via the breather vent.
With the lpg regulator you would not have this problem,I find the beer keeps its condition whilst the cask(on your case polykeg) remains in use at least 3 weeks in my case.
my concern would be if the cask was not properly vented before connecting the regulator that the beer would be too fizzy as it would not be able to release excess pressure which a true cask breather can do.

Yes, that's my worry, Paul. If the excess gas can't escape there seems little point having the breather. Maybe I need to splash out on a proper one.

[rpt]

I'm guessing that a cask breather is a better choice where you have primed the beer - the fermentation will generate gas that you want to vent. My plan is to force carbonate in a keg at a low pressure (5 to 10psi) and serve at this pressure through a check valve to the beer engine. So in this case I don't need to vent.

[Dave S]

I use a proper cask breather on my setup with a JG valve in the line between the breather and the cask .I close this valve between servings.This stops gas escaping backwards via the breather vent.
With the lpg regulator you would not have this problem,I find the beer keeps its condition whilst the cask(on your case polykeg) remains in use at least 3 weeks in my case.
my concern would be if the cask was not properly vented before connecting the regulator that the beer would be too fizzy as it would not be able to release excess pressure which a true cask breather can do.

Who do you recommend for buying breathers from then, Paul?

[paulg]

I got mine from here
http://www.brandels.co.uk/index.php?rou ... 130_94_119

they seem happy to deal with the general public.

or here but they are out of stock at the moment

http://shop.barleybottom.co.uk/Cask-Breather

[seymour]

I use a proper cask breather on my setup with a JG valve in the line between the breather and the cask .I close this valve between servings.This stops gas escaping backwards via the breather vent.
With the lpg regulator you would not have this problem,I find the beer keeps its condition whilst the cask(on your case polykeg) remains in use at least 3 weeks in my case.
my concern would be if the cask was not properly vented before connecting the regulator that the beer would be too fizzy as it would not be able to release excess pressure which a true cask breather can do.

Yes, that's my worry, Paul. If the excess gas can't escape there seems little point having the breather. Maybe I need to splash out on a proper one.

I'm guessing that a cask breather is a better choice where you have primed the beer - the fermentation will generate gas that you want to vent. My plan is to force carbonate in a keg at a low pressure (5 to 10psi) and serve at this pressure through a check valve to the beer engine. So in this case I don't need to vent.

I'm just beginning to experiment with this too. I took the cheap route and bought the mini propane regulator instead of an expensive authentic cask breather. The only downside I can see--which you all have already mentioned--is that it's not a two-way valve which would automatically vent whenever the pressure exceeds 37 mBars = 2.8kpa = .4-.5 psi.

But, just to play devil's advocate, why is that a real problem?

I realize this method could allow a higher level of carbonation than strict CAMRA rules might dictate, but on the other hand, if it's due to priming and secondary fermentation isn't that the very definition of cask conditioning, and wouldn't a little extra natural carbonation simply assist in dispensing a nice foamy beer?

To summarize, even if our poor-man's-cask-breather allowed a bit higher CO2 pressure to remain, isn't that okay for our intents and purposes? It would still be much gentler carbonation than modern force-carbonated keg beer, right?

These are sincere questions, I'm not trying to make a case. What do you guys think? Am I missing something important, such as, might the excess pressure damage the regulator or beer engine?

[adeybambam]

I'm with RPT on this one. My own setup involves a corney set at about 5psi. With some of my kegs (but not all) that is enough to seal them. The keg is then linked to the beer engine via the check valve and served with a sparkler (I'm Northern). The way I see it, there is no need for a cask breather in that set up. I appreciate that I am force carbonating, but (without opening up the whole CAMRA debate) co2 is co2 right? I can see that a cask breather is necessary when using a cask, or polykeg, but with a corney set up it is redundant.

Where CAMRA do have a point is that the beer is not at any point in contact with the air. I do actually think that is crucial for proper "Real Ale" but simply is unworkable for a home brewer (unless he wants to drink a corneys worth in 3 - 5 days!). Overall, I'm happy with my approach...