Corny kegs vs Crusader

[madprofessor]

Hi,

People always seem to rave about Cornelius kegs, but how do they compare to other stainless steel kegs, eg the Crusader ones (http://shop.crusaderkegsandcasks.com/) ?

I just have King Kegs at the moment. I like the idea of something non-plastic but my issue with the cornies is that they're too small to get a 40 or 48 pint brew into.

Cheers,
Kingsley.

[HLA91]

Corny kegs have their advantages, mainly you can pick them up second hand for £40-£50 whereas Crusader you pick up new, but the price is £60-70 from memory so no real price difference their.
Cornies generally need pressure to seal properly as the lid sits on the inside and presses upwards to create a seal, crusader kegs use a threaded spear. This means you could simply blanket your beer with C02 and use a Beer Engine without undue pressure.
Serviceable parts on the Crusaders is Nil I believe, on Cornies its 5 Rubber seals and also poppets.
Crusader couplers are more expensive than Corny Disconnects but the couplers are solid steel so I assume would probably last longer.
Cornies you can get your hand into when cleaning them, with Crusaders you just have to use a torch and hope for the best.

Personally I would go for Crusaders. Having had both cornies and crusaders (I still own 1 corny) I would go for Crusaders.

[Fil]

as im invested in cornies i will stick with em for now, but the brand new 30l polykegs in robust containers for circa £25 are a very viable option imho.

*edit link to polykegs
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171657508619? ... 1438.l2649

my initial concern about 'real' kegs was the inability to get in and clean, but after a few years of corny use i havent stuck my arm in to scrub one once yet..

to make 'real'keg use as easy as corny keg use opt for couplers with a releasable prv built in as unlike cornies the real kegs dont have a prv fitted and venting the keg to relieve excess pressure can be a ritual depending on how you store the kegs

volume wise a 50l brew can be split over 3 cornies, one of the features of the system is the ability to safely keg short..
and the smaller volume is of benefit to some when it comes to shifting them about, a 50l SS keg full of beer is gonna be a challenge to most to lump abou too much, not forgetting the practicalities of keeping more than one 50l keg at optimum serving temp.

you have to consider the whole dispensing system which involves reasonable temperature control/management of the kegs, as well as the regulated co2 supply and the serving balance to reduce the serving keg pressure to the tap. and how where it can all live.. you can fit more than one corny or slim 20l keg in a standard fridge for example .. while 30 or 50l kegs may require a bigger more complex expensive, or noisy temperature control system..

[sladeywadey]

are the seals on corny kegs a real problem then? Or is it a case of changing them every 2 years or so?

[Fil]

are the seals on corny kegs a real problem then? Or is it a case of changing them every 2 years or so?

when you get a new(2nd use) keg and every few years or so is par for the course tho when one goes on a keg its prudent to change the set.. generally its the external post rings that go first as they are exposed and get the most action.
a beer or gas leak can be a pita tho especially if not spotted early.

buying bulk from ebay is the cheapest source of orings these aussis sorted out the sizes/dimensions needed a while back..
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/67746 ... -silicone/

[madprofessor]

Thanks - I'll have to read through that a few times to absorb the info

The other thing - what's the use difference between a Crusader keg and a Crusader cask?

http://shop.crusaderkegsandcasks.com/

The casks are quite a bit pricier.

Cheers,
Kingsley.

[Fil]

casks are for cask conditioned ales tapped and poured from the keg or with a beer engine, kegs are for beer served under pressure with a tap. co2 can be used with a cask and a cask breather to give a longer shelf life, and as long as your not a CAMERA member you can emulate a cask conditioned beer in a keg but not so easily the either way round.

[sladeywadey]

are the seals on corny kegs a real problem then? Or is it a case of changing them every 2 years or so?

when you get a new(2nd use) keg and every few years or so is par for the course tho when one goes on a keg its prudent to change the set.. generally its the external post rings that go first as they are exposed and get the most action.
a beer or gas leak can be a pita tho especially if not spotted early.

buying bulk from ebay is the cheapest source of orings these aussis sorted out the sizes/dimensions needed a while back..
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/67746 ... -silicone/

Thanks Fil - I've decided to order three new corny's to go with my existing one - I think they will suit my set up better and I can live with replacing seals every couple of years or so.

[madprofessor]

I decided to ring the Crusader people up today and ended up having a very useful conversation with the chap who answered the phone.

One thing that was a bit of a sticking point with their kegs is that they need a special tool to get the thing out of the lid, and even then there's little access. Apparently it's due to some safety issue where people used to undo them when the keg had massive pressure inside and the contents had been fired up like a torpedo and gone through the ceiling.

A friend of mine is an engineer who may be able to machine a new fitting / lid and stuff if I offer suitable beer tokens - I'll have to see what he says.

I'm only running King Kegs at the moment and for now am going to convert the CO2 feed to run off a proper gas bottle instead of the little Hambedon Bard cylinders. I have a pressure gauge on each and have just ordered some schrader valves which I'll fit to vent off excess pressure. If I ever get Cornies or Crusader kegs, I'll probably do the same. I find if the beer is kept much over 10psi then I get more head than beer anyway!

Cheers,
Kingsley.

[Fil]

Oh yes One big negative with real kegs is they can be lethal, If you attempt to remove a spear with the keg under pressure it can shoot out with some significant speed n force and if your head is in its path, byeeee!!!

that said and noted the 'safety' feature requiring a super special tool for spear removal can be overcome with a 5p coin in some case or an attack with pliers to pull the catch, (not got em myself so am going by what ive read) which is why most hb buyers get them delivered with the spears out.. then a simple tool can be used to unscrew and remove the spear (barneey has modded a few halfords sockets for the job and sold em in the past and may do again??)

Pressure barrels supplied with a constant regulated gas supply will imho give you an almost as good as dispensing system, eliminating the biggest problem with pb's the never constant pressure state.. upgrade to dalex taps, and bung one in a fridge and you could even condition with pressure a lager.

[HLA91]

I purchased one of Barneeys sockets and just used pliers to remove the safety clips.

[alexlark]

See here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58785&start=45#p627248

and here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58785&start=150#p639764

Barneeys tool: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=69050#p733699

[Goulders]

And apparently a basin spanner works, which is what I will be trying. Some great posts by Barneey though, which persuaded me to go this route

[Kev888]

In addition (I think) to what has already been mentioned, if you like to have more gas lines than beer lines connected, then corny disconnects let you just buy more grey connectors but you can't of course buy half a sankey coupler. For example, I often have a few kegs just carbonating in preparation whilst others are serving, and to replicate that it would cost me noticeably more on couplers - its not a huge issue as I could change my process or swap things around, but seems worth mentioning as the couplers can quickly add up in price even bought used off ebay.

I don't think either choice is wrong, as both types do the job - the stainless and CO2 combo keeps the beer from oxidising right to the last pint. Though some preferences can help decide: if you prefer low carbonation beers then sankey types seal better without pressure, and if you want to buy new they are also cheaper (though offset to a degree by the high fixed postage rate and price of couplers). If you want to spend less by getting used kegs, or if you want to be able to get your arm in or easily see in, then cornies are king. For some people they fit better in existing keggerators too, partly due to the lower-profile disconnects.

Personally I like low carbonation and would prefer the idea of new kegs purpose designed for beer, and (as above) I too don't recall the last time I needed to physically reach inside a keg, so were I setting up afresh it would be Crusaders for me. As it is, I have cornies (Crusaders are a relatively recent arrival) - I may swap at some point for the preferences given, but the differences don't seem staggering enough to make it inevitable.

At least not since I overhauled all the seals and poppets on the used cornies - it must be said that they were a bit of a mixed bag in terms of condition when I first got them. Thankfully most of the seals are simple, cheap O-rings, though some types of poppet and PRV have integrated seals and it can be expensive to replace the whole thing - in fact if you need to it can offset much of the saving of buying used kegs. When I was forced to buy new PRVs and poppets I chose types that take replaceable O-rings, so I won't have that problem in the future - all my corny seals are now standard O-rings. Whereas Cruisader spears have specially moulded seals in, so it will be interesting to see what the life and replacement costs of those are like as they get older (ditto for the couplers) - I'd expect them to be robust given their intended commercial use though.

Cheers
Kev

[sbond10]

So how do commercial brewery's remove spears but leaving the safety features intact ? Can home brewers not buy these ?