BM and efficiency

[danwlx]

Hi all,

I've done half a dozen brews on my BM and I struggle to get decent efficiency, usually around 66%. This isn't a huge problem but I see that some people manage to get 80+.

For my latest brew I used 27 litres in the mash and 7.5 litres of sparge. The grain bill was 5kg of Pilsner malt mashed at 64c for 90 mins. I got 22L @ 1.047. I'm trying to think of areas that may reduce efficiency on the BM and I'm wondering if it's the grain crush, I buy pre crushed from the malt miller, any other BM users on here use pre crushed grain, what sort of efficiencies do you get?

Cheers
Dan

[woblylegs]

if you collect all the trub whats left behind at the bottom of your bm. put it into 2 litre pet bottles and let it settle down for 5 or 6 hours. the trub sinks and you have nice wort at the top. carefully tip it into your fermenter. it will push your efficiency up. or save it and freeze. its is handy to use to make a yeast starter. boil it for 10 mins first though. you end up with very little waste and as a friend said, if its wet it wort lol

[mbarn]

Does the Malt Miller know you have a BM? I tell him and he crushes at 1.3mm, and I gain 75% efficiency. The crush makes a fair difference to the outcome. I assume his regular crush is not 1.3.

Maybe it is true, but take the whole 80+ on a BM with a pinch of salt.

[danwlx]

Thanks mbarn, I didn't realise that MM crushes differently for BM, I'll let it be known on my next order!

[mbarn]

He does anything you want . I just put that I have a Braumeister and can I have a 1.3 crush.
Other than that, I always fill to 23l and sparge with 6.
I've never failed to hit target on a recipe set at 75%. Well, barring Speidels Wheat Beer recipe, but that's another story.

[VANDEEN]

I don't have the experience to give the answers but maybe a few more things to think about, hope it helps.

Do you raise the temp to a mash out stage?
EDIT do you sparge with hot water at mash out temps?
Do you thouroughly mix up your grains with he pipe ifted pre sparge to avoid channelling down the hole where the centre post was?
Do you test the gravity / Brix of your sparge runnings, or just sparge with a set volume?
How slowly do you sparge?
Do you set aside the malt pipe & collect the "drippings"?t
Ever done an iodine test to check for complete conversion? Have a look here..

[youtube] http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CzrNE3gr8qM [/youtube]

I paid about £2 for a bottle of iodine from ebay and it only takes a couple of drops each brew, all of above is what I was shown and gave me the added confidence that my mash had been successful using my new made baraumeister / grainfather inspired equipment

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=75206

Into the kettle pre boil my limited brewing maths says over 85% efficiency into the kettle.

[Jim]

...........Maybe it is true, but take the whole 80+ on a BM with a pinch of salt.

All I can say is that I've witnessed an efficiency of 90%+ on Normski's BM with my own eyes. It's all in how thoroughly you sparge.

[Jocky]

Are you talking about mash efficiency or brew house efficiency?

There's a subtle difference, and mash efficiency will be a higher figure.

As Jim has already said - efficiency is mostly down to how thoroughly you sparge. Recently I mapped my mash efficiency against the net volume (i.e. Ignoring efficiency) of water used in the recipe, and it's pretty startling how close the relationship is. Unless of course you're doing something seriously wrong (very hard to do with a BM).

[Rhodesy]

I practice no sparge with the BM with no detriment to efficiency, I believe Aleman is the same. I just fill the BM up with full volume and treat water as appropriate. Once at dough in temp I drain down to 25L and mash in, once settled and clamped up I switch on the cycle and then flood it with the water I collected earlier. I sometimes leave it on all night if splitting the day out which can sometimes gain a couple extra points.

Whether you sparge or use the technique above you can get great efficiency. I'll try asking for 1.3mm next time from the MM as I have used his standard crush for many brews now with no issue.

[danwlx]

Interesting, what sort of methods are people using? I use a mash out step and am pouring over 78c water over the grain bed, trying to evenly distribute it across the whole grained.

[woblylegs]

...........Maybe it is true, but take the whole 80+ on a BM with a pinch of salt.

All I can say is that I've witnessed an efficiency of 90%+ on Normski's BM with my own eyes. It's all in how thoroughly you sparge.

agree with Jim. have seen it with my own eyes too on Normskis brew days.

[BrewerBen]

Have you tried pausing the program and giving the mash a good stir a couple times. I do this at least twice or if I'm doing a multi step mash once per step. I use pre crushed gains at whatever setting the shop crushes at and my efficiency is usually in the 75 - 80 range. I also siphon into the fermenter so very little wort gets left behind (or you could try tipping). I don't worry about trub in the fermenter. For the sparge I have a mash step at 78c and heat the sparge water to the same temp. Once done I leave the malt pipe draining into a bucket for another half hour or so and pierce holes in the grain bed which can collect another 0.5 - 1l.

[mbarn]

...........Maybe it is true, but take the whole 80+ on a BM with a pinch of salt.

All I can say is that I've witnessed an efficiency of 90%+ on Normski's BM with my own eyes. It's all in how thoroughly you sparge.

agree with Jim. have seen it with my own eyes too on Normskis brew days.

Sorry, my wording sounds more disputing than it's meant to. I know it's possible, and some are getting great efficiency, but it's the tricks you learn (such as a specific sparging method) or about the time you're prepared to put in separating the last bit of wort from the gunk. Most don't get that high efficiency, but there are many exceptions of course for the ones with advanced knowledge and/or the time/inclination.

[vacant]

All I can say is that I've witnessed an efficiency of 90%+ on Normski's BM with my own eyes. It's all in how thoroughly you sparge.

But Normski's motto is "If it's wet, it's wort". Wouldn't surprise me if he sucked mouthfulls of grain dry and spat it out into the boil

[danwlx]

Have you tried pausing the program and giving the mash a good stir a couple times. I do this at least twice or if I'm doing a multi step mash once per step. I use pre crushed gains at whatever setting the shop crushes at and my efficiency is usually in the 75 - 80 range. I also siphon into the fermenter so very little wort gets left behind (or you could try tipping). I don't worry about trub in the fermenter. For the sparge I have a mash step at 78c and heat the sparge water to the same temp. Once done I leave the malt pipe draining into a bucket for another half hour or so and pierce holes in the grain bed which can collect another 0.5 - 1l.

I do this too but do try to prevent the trub from going into the FV.

From all the helpful responses I'm trying to figure out how people sparge with their BM, at the moment it's seems the options are:

- Full volume mashing
- sparge using heated water being poured the the grain in the malt pipe

Does anyone do anything different or have any tips on improving sparging?