3 vessel system or Grainfather?

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Fil
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Re: 3 vessel system or Grainfather?

Post by Fil » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:49 am

If you dont know in your gut which way you want to go it may be prudent to start simple and let the experience tell you what if anything would make the day run smoother for you. There is a good reason so many folk brew biab it simply suits them down to the ground, Personally i get a big kick from fiddling and tweaking and planning brewkit upgrades ..

there are as many brewery set ups as brewers even if using a machine like a BM or a grainfather each brewer contributes something unique to the brew.

I wish i had thought to do a small stove top 5l brew first just to get the order of the day sorted in my mind as upto the point of brewing i was focusing on the tasks involved rather than the flow of the brew its a very fluid process if you pardon the obvious pun. .

If at all diy inclined and comfortable wiring a plug and drilling a hole, then diy brewery fabrication isnt very challenging, and with all the tools and materials at hand is an enjoyable weekend afternoons work.
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Re: 3 vessel system or Grainfather?

Post by IPA » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:45 am

Pinto wrote:All stainless 3V or a Ghetto build out of what you can salvage/buy cheapest ?

All brew good beer, but as mentioned, a 3V is a lot more "hands on" than the click and forget system. However, in it's favour its by FAR the cheapest "pence-per-pint" bit of kit (other than BIAB) - the Grainfather being steep and the Braumeister obscene in this aspect (yes, the Miser force is STRONG in me - you'd need to brew over 1,000 pints in a Braumeister to bring the price-per down to match ales bought in a shop ! ). As Alex mentions above, BIAB is another even cheaper, simpler option (and ideal when you want to try something out or make a quick, smaller volume brew without the hastle of getting all your kit out :) )

Just to add to your confusion more, you can also find a lot of home built "braumiser" all in one vessels if you have an aptitude for tinkering - Barneey's thread on the matter is a superb resource; or you can add automation via pumps, RIMS/HERMS and arduino process control to your 3V....

On matters of heating a 3V, where are you going to brew ? All electric is easy and convenient but needs access to a decent heavy duty electricity supply - which can be expensive infrastructure to build. Gas is portable, can be used anywhere but needs protecting from drafts and adds extra issues to kit building.

Its a minefield :lol:
I don't understand your maths logic. After 1000 pints the BM would almost have paid for itself at £1.20 a pint and from then on for a 4.5 ABV beer it will cost less than 18 pence a pint. In fact lot less.
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IPA
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Re: 3 vessel system or Grainfather?

Post by IPA » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:45 am

Pinto wrote:All stainless 3V or a Ghetto build out of what you can salvage/buy cheapest ?

All brew good beer, but as mentioned, a 3V is a lot more "hands on" than the click and forget system. However, in it's favour its by FAR the cheapest "pence-per-pint" bit of kit (other than BIAB) - the Grainfather being steep and the Braumeister obscene in this aspect (yes, the Miser force is STRONG in me - you'd need to brew over 1,000 pints in a Braumeister to bring the price-per down to match ales bought in a shop ! ). As Alex mentions above, BIAB is another even cheaper, simpler option (and ideal when you want to try something out or make a quick, smaller volume brew without the hastle of getting all your kit out :) )

Just to add to your confusion more, you can also find a lot of home built "braumiser" all in one vessels if you have an aptitude for tinkering - Barneey's thread on the matter is a superb resource; or you can add automation via pumps, RIMS/HERMS and arduino process control to your 3V....

On matters of heating a 3V, where are you going to brew ? All electric is easy and convenient but needs access to a decent heavy duty electricity supply - which can be expensive infrastructure to build. Gas is portable, can be used anywhere but needs protecting from drafts and adds extra issues to kit building.

Its a minefield :lol:
I don't understand your maths logic. After 1000 pints the BM would almost have paid for itself at £1.20 a pint and from then on for a 4.5 ABV beer it will cost less than 18 pence a pint. In fact lot less.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip!"

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Re: 3 vessel system or Grainfather?

Post by Secla » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:51 am

I've had 3v and currently have a grainfather.
I wasn't getting the time to brew often so the swap to the gf has meant I get to do it more regularly and in the warmth of the house instead of the garage that the 3v system had to be in !

I've never factored in equipment cost, more of a hobby to me so making cheap beer isn't really something I was aiming for in the first place

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Re: 3 vessel system or Grainfather?

Post by BrannigansLove » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:39 pm

I have a Grainfather, as I don't have a lot of space to brew. I brew in the kitchen, and use a desk fan and open window to avoid condensation. If I had a garage, I probably would have gone 3V, as they can be cheaper, but having used the GF, I think it would be a option for garage brewing too if you don't mind the cost.

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Re: 3 vessel system or Grainfather?

Post by spanspoon » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:08 pm

i've done both, grainfather or cheaper version for me.
brew day is faster, easier to clean up and easier to use.

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Re: 3 vessel system or Grainfather?

Post by Pinto » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:56 pm

IPA wrote:I don't understand your maths logic. After 1000 pints the BM would almost have paid for itself at £1.20 a pint and from then on for a 4.5 ABV beer it will cost less than 18 pence a pint. In fact lot less.
Just seen this one m8, and you've kind of answered your own question. Brew UK currently list their complete starter kit 50L Braumeister at £2,495 (we'll choose this one so you can make 40 pint/5 Gallon brew lengths). Im currently drinking a very nice Mann's Brown Ale which cost me 95p from a discount supermarket. So making my own brown ale, the Braumeister pays for itself in ....2,626 pints - or 66 (rounded to the nearest) brewdays plus 3.6 years of 2 pints every night to bring the cost per pint to the same as buying my brown ale from the shop. To me (and thats me, not you, or any other brewer who likes the system and it's many advantages) thats simply uneconomical.

Ultimately the BM will make cheap beer, but I'd personally not want to walk the very, very long and winding road to get there. Each to their own tho :)
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Re: 3 vessel system or Grainfather?

Post by Rhodesy » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:33 pm

Pinto wrote:
IPA wrote:I don't understand your maths logic. After 1000 pints the BM would almost have paid for itself at £1.20 a pint and from then on for a 4.5 ABV beer it will cost less than 18 pence a pint. In fact lot less.
Just seen this one m8, and you've kind of answered your own question. Brew UK currently list their complete starter kit 50L Braumeister at £2,495 (we'll choose this one so you can make 40 pint/5 Gallon brew lengths). Im currently drinking a very nice Mann's Brown Ale which cost me 95p from a discount supermarket. So making my own brown ale, the Braumeister pays for itself in ....2,626 pints - or 66 (rounded to the nearest) brewdays plus 3.6 years of 2 pints every night to bring the cost per pint to the same as buying my brown ale from the shop. To me (and thats me, not you, or any other brewer who likes the system and it's many advantages) thats simply uneconomical.

Ultimately the BM will make cheap beer, but I'd personally not want to walk the very, very long and winding road to get there. Each to their own tho :)
The 50L starter kit is extreme though? I have a BM20 which I make 23L batches with ease, it also cost just over half the price of that if I include some accessories. It is a long term investment for me personally and at 35, I hope to get many years use from it :D.

As you say it is each to their own, cheap beer is an advantage but with some of the American styles I like then one brew can end up costing a small fortune then another can cost minimal if buy in bulk. Thats one of the things I love is the variables to brewing and all of the options available.

To the OP, its really down to personal preference and what you want from it, like others I love the ease of a single system which ultimately leads to less cleaning!! Whilst I bought a BM and I love it I do like the attention the GF developers are giving their product and the upgrades they have brought in. All I would say is do plenty of research against each system. I tried 3V by doing batch sparging, fly sparging and latterly RIMS. I found myself forever wanting to tinker and deal with leaks and the dreaded cleaning. I sold off alot of my gear and went with a BM.

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