darkening beer.

[brewdog]

Hi
i have put a recipie on brewers friend, following the malts etc required but the SRM is coming out to light. 4.39 instead of 7.6
With all grain can i substitute some of the lighter malt for a darker malt to get the colour nearer to what it should be.
what grain can i use without altering the character of the beer.

[orlando]

Please don't take this the wrong way but are you sure there is no confusion between EBC and SRM, both figures are definitely SRM? If so the answer is yes you can substitute a darker grain for a lighter one to change the colour but you can't do that without altering the character of the brew. If colour is super important then try Sinimar (well their equivalent) from the Malt Miller.

[brewdog]

[quote="orlando"]Please don't take this the wrong way but are you sure there is no confusion between EBC and SRM, both figures are definitely SRM? If so the answer is yes you can substitute a darker grain for a lighter one to change the colour but you can't do that without altering the character of the brew. If colour is super important then try [url=https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.p ... ductId=452] Sinimar (well their equivalent) [/url] from the Malt Miller.[/quote]
Yes def both SRM I will check the grains now I have them to make sure and adjust BF as required. I will just live with a lighter beer.
Thanks.


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[Kev888]

Yes as Orlando says, slightly darker versions of malts can be used instead of lighter, this may alter flavour a little bit but usually not very much (within reason).

It also isn't uncommon for people to instead add a small amount of very dark malt as colouring. It is sometimes said that Black malt at less than around 60g in a 20L brew should mostly add colour with relatively little flavour contribution. Though that level may be open to debate; IMO it depends on how light and lightly flavoured your beer is to begin with, and on your process (particularly liquor and sparging) not extracting sharper flavours by mistake.

As you are using software, it is worth checking that the colour of grain it is using to make its predictions matches the grain you are actually using (defaults may not be identical), and that you trust the method it employs for calculating the results. I'm not familiar with Brewer's Friend so can't comment specifically, but I have heard of quite different predictions from different software in the past.

[brewdog]

[quote="Kev888"]Yes as Orlando says, slightly darker versions of malts can be used instead of lighter, this may alter flavour a little bit but usually not very much (within reason).

It also isn't uncommon for people to instead add a small amount of very dark malt as colouring. It is sometimes said that Black malt at less than around 60g in a 20L brew should mostly add colour with relatively little flavour contribution. Though that level may be open to debate; IMO it depends on how light and lightly flavoured your beer is to begin with, and on your process (particularly liquor and sparging) not extracting sharper flavours by mistake.

As you are using software, it is worth checking that the colour of grain it is using to make its predictions matches the grain you are actually using (defaults may not be identical), and that you trust the method it employs for calculating the results. I'm not familiar with Brewer's Friend so can't comment specifically, but I have heard of quite different predictions from different software in the past.[/quote]

Thanks
Added 10g of dingermans de husked roasted barley and colour matches.
Thanks all


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[orlando]

Yes as Orlando says, slightly darker versions of malts can be used instead of lighter, this may alter flavour a little bit but usually not very much (within reason).

It also isn't uncommon for people to instead add a small amount of very dark malt as colouring. It is sometimes said that Black malt at less than around 60g in a 20L brew should mostly add colour with relatively little flavour contribution. Though that level may be open to debate; IMO it depends on how light and lightly flavoured your beer is to begin with, and on your process (particularly liquor and sparging) not extracting sharper flavours by mistake.

As you are using software, it is worth checking that the colour of grain it is using to make its predictions matches the grain you are actually using (defaults may not be identical), and that you trust the method it employs for calculating the results. I'm not familiar with Brewer's Friend so can't comment specifically, but I have heard of quite different predictions from different software in the past.

I was recently told that chocolate malt can darken a beer more than black malt but have forgotten the reason why.

[Kev888]

Ah interesting, thanks for the info. For my own purposes I rarely feel the need to alter the colour, as (for me) this usually seems naturally fitting for whatever grains are being used. But if/when trying to emulate another beer or recipe then that could certainly be worth a go.

[brewdog]

The amount I needed to darken was tiny. Will see when brewed next week


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[orlando]

Ah interesting, thanks for the info. For my own purposes I rarely feel the need to alter the colour, as (for me) this usually seems naturally fitting for whatever grains are being used. But if/when trying to emulate another beer or recipe then that could certainly be worth a go.

I've asked the source of this for clarification so will report back.

[orlando]

Ah interesting, thanks for the info. For my own purposes I rarely feel the need to alter the colour, as (for me) this usually seems naturally fitting for whatever grains are being used. But if/when trying to emulate another beer or recipe then that could certainly be worth a go.

I've asked the source of this for clarification so will report back.

And here it is.

The higher the colour the less soluble the extract in general and that means less colour. Some high roast malts can be overdone too going past their optimum levels.

[Kev888]

Ah yes, many thanks! Now you mention it, this rings a small bell.. probably WRT my earlier comment about trusting the software's calculations. It clearly is far from being straight forward.

I'm not against black malt in appropriate quantities, but it isn't always the most harmonious. Chocolate malt would often be more acceptable even if enough were used to subtly contribute flavour. For once it sounds like a win/win outcome!

[guypettigrew]

Any one remember Dave Line's amazing and pioneering book 'The Big Book of Brewing'?

In it he recommends using gravy browning to darken beers.

Those were the days!

Guy

[charliemartin]

Any one remember Dave Line's amazing and pioneering book 'The Big Book of Brewing'?

In it he recommends using gravy browning to darken beers.

Those were the days!

Guy

I've got some in the cupboard and it says on the bottle it can be used for that. Not yet had the courage to do it, but have considered it in a TTL clone instead of black malt.

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[caskman]

I remember well Dave Lines books in fact I still have them.
The gravy browning he referred to was Cross & Blackwell liquid gravy browning. It's basically a thick dark caramel and should be used sparingly say 2x5ml in a 5 gallon brew.
Use it just to tint a little in fact I use it in Ginger wine, note it must be boiled into solution (add with the hops) otherwise it will precipitate out.
Re Dave's Brewing Beers Like those you Buy the early editions had a horrendous number of errors in the metric quantities I think Dave used imperial weights and converted to metric for the book.
I recalculated all the metric quantities in all of the recipes and sent them to the publisher later editions of the book have my figures in the metric columns.

[Jim]

I've also got those David Line books.

I wasn't aware of those errors in BBLTYB though (I only made a few of those and they turned out mostly OK).

I've never been tempted to add the gravy browning he recommended - or the saccharin tablets for that matter!