has the single pot killed the three pot systems

[nibber]

I think there are a lot of home brewers out there that still use the 3 vessel system setup, they are still very popular, and at the end of the day it is whatever you are happy with using

[wezzel01]

I think there are a lot of home brewers out there that still use the 3 vessel system setup, they are still very popular, and at the end of the day it is whatever you are happy with using

My 3 vessel system made great beer but it was a lot of kit to store somewhere. Also, mucking about with pumps, transformers, tubing, spinny sparge arms and all that malarkey was fun at first but became a drudge. Also cleaning was a pain.

Having said that, for some people system building and tweaking, control panels and Heath Robinson contraptions is half the fun.

I suppose it’s horses for courses.


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[hedgerow pete]

My 3 vessel system made great beer but it was a lot of kit to store somewhere. Also, mucking about with pumps, transformers, tubing, spinny sparge arms and all that malarkey was fun at first but became a drudge. Also cleaning was a pain.

Having said that, for some people system building and tweaking, control panels and Heath Robinson contraptions is half the fun.

I suppose it’s horses for courses.


thats a couple of good pointers, storage and set upand breaking down. I have been doing some bean counting on the set up costs of buying and assembling my own kit again in pieces replacing the whole lot in a set time and budget or on the single high cost purchase of a one shot system. even with the cost of grain father its still very similar, especially once you add the costs of pumps, pipes, fittings, clips and so forth

[Mangold]

I have only used one pot systems, but think for the price and quality you can't go wrong!

[aamcle]

I normal sparge with cold water the only disadvantage is that it then takes longer to reach a boil.

Alan

[wellyftw]

Started off with a 3 pot system, and then built a 3 pot mini system (it’d make about 10L of wort at a time) which I used all the time. It was brilliant and super easy to use/clean. Then eventually I got a Grainfather and made some of my best beers with that. Used it for about 5 or 6 years before stopping brewing due to circumstance. I’ve recently purchased a Brewtools B40 as a “pilot” system for the small/micro/nano brewery I’m involved in setting up, which we’re using a B150 for. It’s absolutely brilliant with the exception of the sparge hat, which is not good and definitely needs attention.

I think for this size, the 1 pot system (well, 1 pot plus a sparge vessel.. so 2 pot) is perfect. I can definitely see the benefits of a 3 pot system for home brewers - certainly it’d be cheaper than most good 1 vessel systems, and very versatile. But it’s hard to beat new 1 vessel systems these days. You don’t have to worry about all the boring stuff and can get on with brewing.

I remember when these 1 vessel systems came out, you’d get the traditionalists bleating on about how it wasn’t proper brewing and it did everything for you, which was clearly a load of rubbish. They do the important bits - making sure your temperature is correct and stable, and allow you to do things that, unless you have some HERMS or RIMS system in place, you just can’t do (easily, at least) on a basic 3 vessel system - step mashing, for example.

For home brewing, personally I see no reason to go for anything other than a 1 vessel system unless cost is a factor. They take up less room, they’re easier/quicker to clean and they have better temperature control, to name a few advantages.

[McMullan]

I’ve recently purchased a Brewtools B40 as a “pilot” system for the small/micro/nano brewery I’m involved in setting up, which we’re using a B150 for.

Let me get this straight. You have a single vessel system with ‘150L’ capacity as a ‘commercial’ set up? With business partners? Let’s ignore how a more flexible 3V system might have allowed a second mash to be prepped as the first one boils, doubling capacity over a single vessel system. We’ll ignore this because 150L, commercially speaking, is SFA. And you have a B40 as a ‘pilot' system?

There’s no money in beer per se. Like most things, in business, it’s all about volume, volume, volume and a lot of hard work. What’s your business model? How many partners? Set up costs? How are you packaging? Who’s buying it? At this scale you’ll be paying as much as a home brewer for your ingredients and other consumables. What’s your turnaround for a standard beer? How much fermentation and conditioning capacity have you invested in downstream of wort production?

You’ll be lucky to get a quid a bottle, like the best craft brewers around. That equates to about 300 quid per run minus costs (including taxes) divided by number of partners. You could sell it directly for more than a quid a bottle, but minus the costs of doing so - time, staff, marketing, outlet(s), etc. - you might end up with even less than a quid a bottle, if you haven’t got your worzel head screwed on very tightly.

I hope that was sobering enough to put you off setting yourself up to fail and potentially lose a lot more than you ever bargained for.

Merry Christmas.

[LeeH]

^^^ You’re going to need a few B150s!

3V is the way to go, you can do a double brew day, a single pot is too restrictive.

[wellyftw]

I’ve recently purchased a Brewtools B40 as a “pilot” system for the small/micro/nano brewery I’m involved in setting up, which we’re using a B150 for.

Let me get this straight. You have a single vessel system with ‘150L’ capacity as a ‘commercial’ set up? With business partners? Let’s ignore how a more flexible 3V system might have allowed a second mash to be prepped as the first one boils, doubling capacity over a single vessel system. We’ll ignore this because 150L, commercially speaking, is SFA. And you have a B40 as a ‘pilot' system?

There’s no money in beer per se. Like most things, in business, it’s all about volume, volume, volume and a lot of hard work. What’s your business model? How many partners? Set up costs? How are you packaging? Who’s buying it? At this scale you’ll be paying as much as a home brewer for your ingredients and other consumables. What’s your turnaround for a standard beer? How much fermentation and conditioning capacity have you invested in downstream of wort production?

You’ll be lucky to get a quid a bottle, like the best craft brewers around. That equates to about 300 quid per run minus costs (including taxes) divided by number of partners. You could sell it directly for more than a quid a bottle, but minus the costs of doing so - time, staff, marketing, outlet(s), etc. - you might end up with even less than a quid a bottle, if you haven’t got your worzel head screwed on very tightly.

I hope that was sobering enough to put you off setting yourself up to fail and potentially lose a lot more than you ever bargained for.

Merry Christmas.

With all due respect, you're making loads of assumptions here without knowing any of the background. We have two small venues that we'll be providing beer for. We're not bottling or canning. It's keg only for our two venues. We don't need to supply the venues with any more than a keg a week, which is what we're doing. Not sure this thread is about what we're doing though.

[McMullan]

With all due respect, this sounds worse than I first imagined. Feel free to offer up details of your business model. There’s no charge. At your proposed scale it’s nothing more than a costly vanity project. It would make so much more sense, from a business point of view, to just buy 2 kegs of ready-made beer from a brewery down the road. It’s going to be a hell of a lot cheaper. It’s simply not worth the cost, time, effort and regulatory hoops required to make it yourself.

[wellyftw]

Honestly have no interest in your critique of this project.

[McMullan]

With all due respect, matey, we don’t actually ‘critique’ business models. A viable business model isn’t based on personal opinions or hope; it’s based on fundamental facts of business that are easily measurable against minimal expectations for success. Any genuine assessment is to ascertain whether you actually have a viable business plan, or not, not how big your bum might look in it, when it quickly folds up.

[f00b4r]

Let’s leave it there please gents.