Cornelius Keg Cons?

[Binkie Huckaback]

I'm thinking of kegging my beer, but part of me is not so sure. I know there are plenty of reasons to keg over bottling, but has anyone made the move to cornelius kegs and regretted it or found it wasn't all they thought it would be?

[Top Cat]

I'm thinking of kegging my beer, but part of me is not so sure. I know there are plenty of reasons to keg over bottling, but have anyome made the move to cornelius kegs and regretted it or found it wasn't all they thought it would be?

Difficult to find reasons.
I converted about 3 years ago and now have three in a keezer.
The disadvantages could be deemed to be:-

If you don’t brew often or only brew small batches, ie not enough to fill a cornie regularly, bottling would still be viable, though you could buy small kegs.

Initial outlay, for your keg(s) C02 cylinder, gauges and fittings.

Cooling facilities, you really need something to keep your kegs cool in the warm weather, It’s not like putting a few bottles in the fridge half an hour before drinking.

You can only assume how much you have in left in the keg, lifting it up to find how heavy it is disturbs the sediment, beer is taken from the bottom, although using a float system avoids this.

I brew around 5 gallons a month, more since the pubs are shut! I find there are so many advantages if you want as near to cask conditioned ale as you can get.
The kegs are reliable, and beer line fittings, spares, etc are very easily obtainable.

And finally no PITA bottle cleaning!!!!!

[Jocky]

The main cons are the cost of everything you need to operate and cool the kegs and the space that takes up.

My wife still prefers that to having lots of empty bottles sitting around.

[bitter_dave]

Genuine question from someone one who does not use corny kegs - what about minimum carbonation levels? If I use a king keg bottom tap I can have quite low carbonation (which I like). Is that true of Cornelius kegs?

[McMullan]

Genuine question from someone one who does not use corny kegs - what about minimum carbonation levels? If I use a king keg bottom tap I can have quite low carbonation (which I like). Is that true of Cornelius kegs?

That's a very valid point, imo. The lids on corny kegs depend on relatively high pressure to seal properly generally. One of the key reasons I moved over to modified sankey kegs was to get away from this and better serve naturally low carbonated ales through a beer engine without the need to down the whole keg over a weekend. Not as sexy as a cask, but easier to manage over time.

[bottles]

I went over to Cornelius kegs about 5 years ago. Cost for the gas regulators and lines adds up. Kegs you can acquire slowly at reasonable cost if buying second hand. They will take up as much spare space you have!
I do get a bit bored having to drink the same beer before starting a new keg. I now bottle about 6 bottles per brew to dink later, for variety. I still struggle to get a reasonable level of head generally getting it right as the kegs is near empty.
I wouldn't go back as bottling takes less than an hour.
Look at other kegging systems. Crusader, sankey etc as it feels like cornices are getting harder to find as they aren't used by restaurants/pubs for holding syrup anymore (allegedly).
Best of luck in your journey serving beer.
Andrew

[bottles]

Oh just remembered. An issue you rarely hear about. Loosing a whole cylinder of co2 with a leaky keg/connector. This can also cause a large pool of beer on the floor which is always a surprise to find.
I use a beer line chiller as I bought it cheap off eBay and never had the space for a beer fridge/keezer. A keezer does give a nice receptacle to hold stale beer, I guess.
One last issue is it can increase the amount you drink. As it wasn't a proper pint cause of all that head, etc and you have paid to chill it so its a shame to waste the energy etc etc.
Andrew

[Jocky]

Oh just remembered. An issue you rarely hear about. Loosing a whole cylinder of co2 with a leaky keg/connector. This can also cause a large pool of beer on the floor which is always a surprise to find.
I use a beer line chiller as I bought it cheap off eBay and never had the space for a beer fridge/keezer. A keezer does give a nice receptacle to hold stale beer, I guess.
One last issue is it can increase the amount you drink. As it wasn't a proper pint cause of all that head, etc and you have paid to chill it so its a shame to waste the energy etc etc.
Andrew

I agree the system needs maintaining, with careful checks on connectors and seals.

I’m happier doing that than cleaning bottles though.

[IPA]

If you do decide to start using cornies make sure you buy a float take off. If you don't you will never get crystal clear beer.
There are several types to choose from. I find that the one from Ballihoo works very well. It is essential to use silicone tube with it not the supplied PVC tube.

[vacant]

I used kegs for three(?) years but sold my shiny stuff to revert to plastic BIAB boiler and bottles earlier this year purely because I'm not drinking as much beer.

Some very good points have been made already

• Cost - I got back what I had paid overall for cylinder (£5 deposit)/gauge/steel boiler & mash tun, kegs. Originally got five kegs for £27 each, sold them for £30 each over the years but could have asked £40.
• I brewed ahead: one keg plus a few bottles. My fridge holds two kegs, when one ran out another was ready along with bottles.
• I used a couple of Ballihoo floats for top take-off which worked well though cold crashing gets my beer very clear now.
• I like low carbonation. My B-grade kegs sealed with a kettle of boiling water when cleaning (press down outlet post under a cloth to drive water through outlet) I kept a set of new seals but passed them on unused.
• I was cautious, I always kept my gas turned off just topping up the pressure when I poured if required.

[Jocky]

Oh just remembered. An issue you rarely hear about. Loosing a whole cylinder of co2 with a leaky keg/connector. This can also cause a large pool of beer on the floor which is always a surprise to find.
I use a beer line chiller as I bought it cheap off eBay and never had the space for a beer fridge/keezer. A keezer does give a nice receptacle to hold stale beer, I guess.
One last issue is it can increase the amount you drink. As it wasn't a proper pint cause of all that head, etc and you have paid to chill it so its a shame to waste the energy etc etc.
Andrew

I agree the system needs maintaining, with careful checks on connectors and seals.

I’m happier doing that than cleaning bottles though.

Also buy a decent regulator. RLBS, Micromatic, ODL that will cost you £50-60. Not one of the sub £30 ones from Amazon or eBay. Every time I see a failure of a regulator it's one of the cheap ones. Failures include dumping out an entire CO2 tank via the pressure release or massively overcarbonating beer as it stops regulating CO2 pressure.

The premium regulators are designed for a long life in a pub cellar, and to be serviced with a new diaphragm many times.

[Jocky]

Genuine question from someone one who does not use corny kegs - what about minimum carbonation levels? If I use a king keg bottom tap I can have quite low carbonation (which I like). Is that true of Cornelius kegs?

That's a very valid point, imo. The lids on corny kegs depend on relatively high pressure to seal properly generally. One of the key reasons I moved over to modified sankey kegs was to get away from this and better serve naturally low carbonated ales through a beer engine without the need to down the whole keg over a weekend. Not as sexy as a cask, but easier to manage over time.

I've found you can get reasonably close with a few tricks.

1. Your corny needs to have a good lid. If the keg has had a commercial life then it's likely that the handle will be slightly bent from pressure and the feet will be worn and these decrease the amount of upward pressure on the lid seal. Brand new ones with big fat seals can be had for £10.

2. If you're serving your beer at UK cask cellar temperature of 10-13C then 6-10 PSI is enough pressure to seal a good lid and that will get you 1.5-1.8 volumes of CO2, which is a touch above cask. Personally my keezer is set for serving keg beer primarily so it's colder than that (6C) but I still find 8 PSI is pretty good, mainly thanks to the next trick...

3. Ignore line balancing. I serve on a short length of 3/8" line, and the beer rushes out, filling an oversized pint glass in 10 seconds with 2/3 pint beer and 1/3 pint foam, which will settle back over a couple of minutes and allow you to top up. This knocks out quite a bit of the CO2 similar to the action of a beer engine.

[bitter_dave]

Genuine question from someone one who does not use corny kegs - what about minimum carbonation levels? If I use a king keg bottom tap I can have quite low carbonation (which I like). Is that true of Cornelius kegs?

That's a very valid point, imo. The lids on corny kegs depend on relatively high pressure to seal properly generally. One of the key reasons I moved over to modified sankey kegs was to get away from this and better serve naturally low carbonated ales through a beer engine without the need to down the whole keg over a weekend. Not as sexy as a cask, but easier to manage over time.

I've found you can get reasonably close with a few tricks.

1. Your corny needs to have a good lid. If the keg has had a commercial life then it's likely that the handle will be slightly bent from pressure and the feet will be worn and these decrease the amount of upward pressure on the lid seal. Brand new ones with big fat seals can be had for £10.

2. If you're serving your beer at UK cask cellar temperature of 10-13C then 6-10 PSI is enough pressure to seal a good lid and that will get you 1.5-1.8 volumes of CO2, which is a touch above cask. Personally my keezer is set for serving keg beer primarily so it's colder than that (6C) but I still find 8 PSI is pretty good, mainly thanks to the next trick...

3. Ignore line balancing. I serve on a short length of 3/8" line, and the beer rushes out, filling an oversized pint glass in 10 seconds with 2/3 pint beer and 1/3 pint foam, which will settle back over a couple of minutes and allow you to top up. This knocks out quite a bit of the CO2 similar to the action of a beer engine.

Thanks Jocky, that's useful information to know.

[PeeBee]

I've found you can get reasonably close with a few tricks.

1. Your corny needs to have a good lid. If the keg has had a commercial life then it's likely that the handle will be slightly bent from pressure and the feet will be worn and these decrease the amount of upward pressure on the lid seal. Brand new ones with big fat seals can be had for £10.

2. If you're serving your beer at UK cask cellar temperature of 10-13C then 6-10 PSI is enough pressure to seal a good lid and that will get you 1.5-1.8 volumes of CO2, which is a touch above cask. Personally my keezer is set for serving keg beer primarily so it's colder than that (6C) but I still find 8 PSI is pretty good, mainly thanks to the next trick...

3. Ignore line balancing. I serve on a short length of 3/8" line, and the beer rushes out, filling an oversized pint glass in 10 seconds with 2/3 pint beer and 1/3 pint foam, which will settle back over a couple of minutes and allow you to top up. This knocks out quite a bit of the CO2 similar to the action of a beer engine.

I don't think you should be satisfied with "reasonably close". A match is perfectly achievable.

1. I replaced all the lid seals with these thicker ones (don't believe the bull about silicone ones). E.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322405451182.
2. You can't manage low pressures with "single stage" regulators (hence Jocky quotes astronomically high figures!). I use these as 2ndary regulators (downstream of the cylinder, or primary, regulator). https://gasproducts.co.uk/gas-regulator ... ooder.html (they'll adjust between 0.75 and 2 PSI, I suggest 1.5-2 if "gravity" serving else it might not come out of the Cornie).
3. Yes, ignore "line balancing" (and kegging tables) or you learn they are based on a straight-line graph and actually it is a very curved line (pretending it is a straight line is okay for relatively high pressures).

All a bit of a PITA? It was fine when Cornie kegs were cheap. Might be better to use real kegs (Sankey) now days. Great irony serving cask-style ale out of a keg!

Questions? First try the "treatise" https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view. I need to put that on my "signature" now?

[Jambo]

Of course, don’t ignore line balancing if you like beer that isn’t flat.