Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

[Fr_Marc]

Good morning Forum!

As my first try at an AG brew is happily fermenting in it's vessel, I am already thinking about my next brew day. I want to try my hands on a T.E.A. clone, a beer I really enjoyed while travelling Surrey. Searching this forum, I found out that some homebrewers have brewed a T.E.A. clone in the past. While there are some documentations of brewdays and recipe discussions out there, I did not find posts about how the brews turned out and if they were anywhere near the original stuff. I therefore don't know which recipy I should follow. Thence I want to ask for your help in preparing my brew.

Please allow me to list the recipes for Hog's Back T.E.A. clones I found on the internet and then aks my questions.

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A) Normans Real Ale Almanac:

25 litre batch OG 1044 ABV 4.2%

PIPKIN PALE MALT 4303 gms
CRYSTAL MALT 349 gms

HOPS boil time 90 minutes

FUGGLES 35 gms
GOLDINGS 33 gms

Add 10 gms Goldings last 15 minutes.

Yeast of your choice
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B) Grainfather Community Recipe:

23 litre batch OG 1.042 ABV 4.11%

MARRIS OTTER MALT 4300 gms
CARAMEL/Crystal MALT 30L 500gms

HOPS boil time 60 Minutes

FUGGLES 45 gms.

Add another 45gms Fuggles last 10 Minutes.

Yeast: Wyeast London ESB Ale 1968
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C) Homebrewtalk Forum:

5.5 gallon batch OG 1.043 ABV 4.2%

9 lbs Maris Otter
0.75 lbs Crystal 60
1 oz Fuggles @ 60
1 oz Goldings @ 60
0.5 oz Goldings @ 10

Yeast: Wyeast London ESB Ale 1968
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D)Bramswell's Recipe from this post: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=19411&p=222919&hil ... ea#p222919

4.30 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 92.5 %
0.35 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (140.0 EBC) Grain 7.5 %
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (90 min) Hops 18.5 IBU
25.00 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (90 min) Hops 13.9 IBU
8.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (15 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
1.21 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

mash @ 67.8'c for 90 mins
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My basic questions are the following:

1. Which recipe would you suggest following?

2. All of these recipes more or less follow a classic pale ale grainbill. When entered into a brewing software, non of the recipes delivers the right colour profile for T.E.A. ("looks like cooper"). The recipes end up with ~10-12 EBC, while T.E.A. should be somwhere around 20-22, I guess. How should I address this? Adding a small amount of Black Malt (which I happen to have at hand)? Go for a darker Caramel/Crystal Malt than 60L or 80L?

3. Which Yeast would you recommend for the brew? The Hog's Back brewery seems to use the Hook Norton strain and seem to be giving away yeast for a small donation. Unfortunately, this is not an option for me as I am living and brewing in Germany. Can someone recommend a commercial available yeast that is similar to Hook Norton/ Hog's Back yeast?

4. Has anyone brewed a T.E.A. clone that was really close to the original regarding colour, aroma and taste and is willing to share the recipe/process with us?

The last questions is probabely the most important and most expedient one.

I am looking forward to your answers, hints and tips. Thank you for your help!

Marc

[bryanferry]

Hey Marc, I recently tried to make something similar to T.E.A. From my notes it was basically recipe B but I used up some spare dark crystal (350g) and some molasses to get the colour. I also reduced the early fuggles to 35g. It came out pretty close in colour and smell but the taste was different, probably due to the yeast. It was a tasty batch on its own terms and didnt hang around long in the keg.

To my mind the problem with clone brewing is that even with all the ingredients from the brewery its difficult to get it right. To save a madness spiral I instead try to take inspiration from beers I've enjoyed and try to go for the style.

[Fr_Marc]

Dear Bryanferry, thank you for your answer. I posted my questions on three different homebrewing forums and you are the first one to answer.

Did you add the dark crystal and molasses in addition to the Caramel/Crystal 30L mentioned in the recipe or instead of it? Also, do you remember how much molasses you used?

As I have no need for (yet another) madness spiral, I am not intending to archieve an exact clone. My sole aim is to produce something similar to Hog's Back T.E.A., which I really enjoyed while in England. So, basically we are following the same aproach.

Again, thanks for your help and cheers!

[orlando]

I am not intending to achieve an exact clone. My sole aim is to produce something similar to Hog's Back T.E.A.,

That is a realistic approach.

The chances of a true clone are remote, because I believe, and it is only a belief, that scale is a factor. But, the most important reason is that without the brewery yeast you have no chance. I managed to snaffle some yeast on a Hook Norton brewery tour. It's like a wild animal compared to the anaemic wet yeasts available to us. It made some lovely Beer but was still not quite the same.

Now, you didn't want to hear that, but as you are just wanting to make a good example of that style of Beer that's OK. Start with the recipe you like the look of. Stick to best practice, pitch plenty of healthy yeast and control temperature during fermentation and then see where you are. It's then just a question of changing one thing, if you're not happy, to slowly fine tune your efforts until you're happy.

[Fr_Marc]

Start with the recipe you like the look of. Stick to best practice, pitch plenty of healthy yeast and control temperature during fermentation and then see where you are. It's then just a question of changing one thing, if you're not happy, to slowly fine tune your efforts until you're happy.

Thank you, sir. I will try to do this. I will start with recipe "B", adjusted a little bit following bryanferry's suggestions and see how it will turn out. Like an old fellow used to say to me: "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!"

NB: I would still be interested to know if substituting WhiteLabs WLP007 "Dry English Ale" yeast for the Hook Norton yeast (as someone suggested) is the right direction or totally off...

[Jocky]

TEA was an early favourite ale of mine. The wife keeps asking me to make something like it.

Most of those recipes aren’t too far apart aside from some late hopping and the yeast choice. I’d probably go for something like B/C myself.

Yeast choice is critical. Honestly the best thing would be to get some from the brewery or culture some up from a bottle conditioned bottle. In the absence of that, I’d pick a good wet yeast. 1968 ESB is ok, but mash low to achieve attenuation.

I’d consider 1275 Thames Valley yeast personally. Whatever you choose, don’t use S-04. It’s just not very nice in my opinion.

[orlando]

NB: I would still be interested to know if substituting WhiteLabs WLP007 "Dry English Ale" yeast for the Hook Norton yeast (as someone suggested) is the right direction or totally off...

If you can get it, all day long.

[Fr_Marc]

I am not sure if I got my English mixed up there. What I wanted to ask is this:

Since I cannot get my hands on the Hook Norton yeast, someone suggested to use WhiteLabs „Dry English Ale“ instead. Is that a sound suggestion leading in the right direction?

[orlando]

I am not sure if I got my English mixed up there. What I wanted to ask is this:

Since I cannot get my hands on the Hook Norton yeast, someone suggested to use WhiteLabs „Dry English Ale“ instead. Is that a sound suggestion leading in the right direction?

It's worth trying. The dried yeast that would also attenuate well is Nottingham, if that is easier to get. If your happy with the recipe then changing the yeast each time until you find the one you think is closest to your goal.

[Madbrewer]

Looking back through my records I seem to remember Andy (one of the moderators on here) and myself doing a load of TEA batches to see who could come up with something close to TEA. We are both lucky enough to live close enough to the brewery to get the actual yeast. I rated the following recipe as 8.5/10 and as I don't particularly like TEA it must have been related to closeness as opposed to marks out of ten for a great beer. However this was 10+ years ago.

4300g pale, 350g Crystal, Fuggle 25g (90 mins) 30g Golding (90) & 8g Golding (10) didn't record the AA's doh!
23 litre batch

Thoughts on yeast choice:

HN never attenuated brilliantly so you probably want a lazy and buttery yeast maybe Lalbrew's London would be close or even White Labs WLP005 British Ale Yeast?

not sure if that helps or not really ...

Phil

[Fr_Marc]

Dear Phil, tanks for the input. Can you give me a hint on which type of Crystal malt you used back then? Looking at your recipe I guess that it must have been a rather dark variety in order to produce a cooper coloured beer like TEA...
I will also have a look at your yeast suggestions. Thanks a lot! Marc

[Madbrewer]

Most likely it would have been this one:-

https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/ac ... illed.html

57-66 lovibond.

Hope that helps ...

[Fr_Marc]

Thanks, Phil. That helps a lot.

[McMullan]

I'd avoid WLP005 and WLP007. Good performers, especially WLP007, but they both lack character, imo. In terms of 'lazy' and 'buttery' I'd have to recommend WY1187 as something much better and, more importantly, accessible.

[Fr_Marc]

WY1187 is said to be a „high maintenance yeast“, if I understand correctly. Since the TEA clone will be my second ever all grain brew, I am not sure if I am ready for it, unfortunately.