Missed my numbers by a country mile!

[Pigster]

Hi there,
Today I brewed a simple English best bitter. Brew number 10 so still very new - I get different trials and tribulations each time!!

In summary:
3.4kg m/otter
0.25kg medium crystal
0.1kg dark crystal

Boil for 68c for 75 mins.
Add 29g north down at 60 mins (leaf)
Add 23kg east Kent holdings (pellet) at flame out.

I added a teaspoon of yeast nutrient at -10 mins and a whirlfloc tablet then too.
At -5 mins I whirlpooled for 5 mins (slow speed on an electric drill).

I was expecting an OG of 1043. My hydrometer says 1052 at 20c, my Tilt2 says 1047 at 20c so I’m guessing I need to calibrate the Tilt.

My mash water was 14.1 litres, plus 12.6 litres sparge.
I’m on a grainfather g30, uk version.

I was aiming to collect 19 litres. Only managed 16.
Boil volume was 19 litres yet the Brewfather CAMC is suggesting this should have been 24 litres - yet I used their numbers.

I let the wort chill slightly for 25 mins after whirlpooling so down to 85c before I started the chill. But - very murky, and lots of murk (I’m sure there’s a better term!) transferred to the FV. Which is settling quickly. But means my 16 litres in the FV is likely to be 14 litres available to bottle.

My equipment profile was shown as default rather than G30 so that has changed water amounts slightly.

So:
1) why are my numbers so far out
2) is my process wrong?
3) should I add some cooled boiled water? Or just accept and see how it goes?

Cheers guys!

[WalesAles]

Pigster,
Boil for 68c for 75 mins

How can you boil at 68c?
Was that your mash temp?

WA

[Pigster]

Yes sorry! Mash at 68c for 75 mins.
Boil time also 75 mins.

[Jim]

You have the potential for about 1.075 with that grain bill in 16l of wort, so your overall brewhouse efficiency was about 70% which is on the low side.

If you'd collected 19l the potential extract would be around 63, so if you had gotten the expected 1.043 that would also have been at an efficiency of around 70%.

Where did you get the 1.043 from, and what was the assumed brewhouse efficiency (I'm guessing 70%)?

[Eric]

Working backwards, 2 litres will be likely left in the boiler to hops and hot break, so needing 21 litres after the boil for 19 litres into the FV.

Allowing say 3 litres for evaporation when boiling makes 24 litres, matching the Brewfather figure.

A litre at least will remain in each kg of grain, making a requirement of 28 litres for mash and sparge against the 26.7 litres used.

19 litres at the start of the boil indicates 7.7 litres were removed with the grains.

I would advise always having a few litres of spare sparge water at the ready.

[MashBag]

Don't be scared to top up the fermenter, with drinkable water. The beer will be fine.

[Pigster]

Thanks guys. I need to work backwards as suggested and see what’s happened where, then compare to Brewfather. I’m probably not using the software right as it’s a clever bit if kit!
Confused that my Tilt2 and hydrometer are giving different readings. One needs to be calibrated but which?! The Tilt2 says ready calibrated and only revisit when changing the battery, which should be 18 months away.

Any ni comments on my process gratefully received, in particular the timings around a) flavour hops, b) adding Irish moss, c) whirlpooling, d) aroma hops and e) length of time to let everything settle pre chill.

Also at the end of the mash for a simple 2-3 malt English bitter would you expect it to be clear or murky?

Thanks again and cheers!

[MashBag]

Clear or murky imo is irrelevant the fermentation will sort it out.

[Cobnut]

I don't rely on the Tilt as an accurate measure of gravity, but use it to indicate progress of fermentation by logging readings regularly to Brewfather.

Check FG using a hydrometer.

And one other thing, I'd recommend changing battery in the Tilt annually - although it will depend on how often you brew, so how much the battery gets used.

[Eric]

Also at the end of the mash for a simple 2-3 malt English bitter would you expect it to be clear or murky?

Thanks again and cheers!

I'm not familiar with the Grainfather, mostly having brewed using 3 vessels, but do now have a cheap and crude single pot system. Like many old-timers, I first learned from reading Dave Line's advice, to quote.....

Rich wort will start draining off immediately, but will be rather cloudy and hence it is best to collect the first jug or so and return it to the surface of the grains before letting the rest into the boiler.

Of course, that was written before both modern single pot systems and the potential of poor advice in digital form to outnumber the better in milliseconds.

From observation, single pot systems can produce clear wort and with mine, a reasonable result is possible with effort and determination. Of potentially more concern is grain and other particles contacting electrical elements and causing them to burn out, as might have been the cause for a recent posting on this forum.

Your questions are all prudent and you will likely find your own answers with each and every brew.

[vacant]

mostly having brewed using 3 vessels, but do now have a cheap and crude single pot system.

@Eric: me too. I started with a BIAB single plastic boiler, upgraded to (shiny) two pot but sold all that and reverted to my single pot.

Coincidentally, I brewed on 3rd May and thought I might post about "hitting your numbers" as I'm usually very close. I use Brewtarget software to manage my inventory and recipe design and then enter the figures into a spreadsheet tweaked for my equipment. When I was creating the spreadsheet I found it useful to work backwards, using scales to weigh or a jug to measure volume whenever possible.

Working backwards:

• After bottling I have some trub left, about 1 litre usually. During fermentation sugars are converted roughly 50:50 to alcohol, if I have a litre of alcohol, I vented a litre of CO2. To bottle 23 litres I need to collect 25 litres from my brew day. So 25 litres is the amount I enter into the brewing software.
• Draining 25 litres from the boiler leaves 2 litres of trub measuring the contents left in the boiler/hop bag. I want 27 litres at the end of boil.
• My equipment boils off 5 litres per hour on two elements and 1.5 litres per hour on one element. My spreadsheet tells me the amount from the mash stage if I boil with two elements for 30 minutes then one element for 30 minutes.
• Weighing the drained mash reveals my specific grain absorption (I have a pulley, the bag drains very well over the boiler).

Having measured the above a few times for the spreadsheet, I just trust it to tell me the total liquor for a specific brew length.

Spreadsheet also does strike temp, CRS, gypsum.

[MashBag]

Dave Line also managed to brew without brewing software.. Remarkabe man.

[guypettigrew]

Dave Line also managed to brew without brewing software.. Remarkabe man.

Remarkable indeed. Shame we lost him so young.

He did use a calculator. Would that count as brewing software?!!!!

Guy

[Jim]

Dave Line also managed to brew without brewing software.. Remarkabe man.

Remarkable indeed. Shame we lost him so young.

He did use a calculator. Would that count as brewing software?!!!!

Guy

I'm guessing slide rule.

[Eric]

Pocket caclulators were about when he died, but probably not affordable or plentiful when he wrote much of his work.

Do you still have a slide rule Jim? Threw a 6 inch and 2 @ 12 inch ones out when clearing out after retirement, but somewhere have a circular one that fits inside a top pocket. Can't see me ever using it, but was very useful in its day.