Effect of mashing with too much water

[Friary]

Hi guys,

Quick question. Would a 90 min mash with a larger amount of brewing water than that specified in recipes knacker the pH and cause lots of off flavours? Going back to my first ag brew, I recon this might be the thing that screwed it rather than slightly high temperatures - I completely missed the amount of water you should mash with and just threw in as much water as I thought would fit the mash tun (probably at least double the amount in the receipe) - school boy!

Hoping to do another ag over the weekend and don't want it to go pear shaped again!

Cheers,

Matt

[jonnyt]

No it will be fine as per BIAB which uses all the water in the mash with no sparge.

[Rookie]

I read somewhere that a thinner mash can effect the F G by making it a bit lower.

[dogchillibilly]

I have read and heard opinions that thinner mashes can make a more fermentable wort.
however I haven't ever seen any scientific evidence.


I think anything from 2x water to grain to 5x is ok. And biab goes above this and no one has any issue with that.
I wouldn't worry for now... But if you want to experiment in the let us know if you notice any difference.

At the end of the day the wort will ferment, you will get beer, it will probably taste great.

[Bibinimis]

I have an old Electrim boiler in which I find it difficult to mash a normal amount of grain like 4kg. This is partly because the thermostat does not seem efficient and also the new mashing bag I bought is a bigger size than the original so harder to keep in place the more weight is put in it. I recently therefore did a brew of 2kg grain and 2kg extract. I mashed the grain in 12 litres of water which was mainly kept at the right temp and then sparged a few litres slightly higher then after dissolving the extract separately boiled the lot. I did not treat the water in any way but am now a bit worried that as so much water was used in the mash I may have extracted tannins and am heading for off tastes. I mixed the grain to a "porridge" in the bag but did not disturb it at all during the sparge. I hope I am worrying too much!?

[MashBag]

I am in the "no obvious effect" camp

[Bibinimis]

I am in the "no obvious effect" camp

Thanks I was hoping that the greater volume of water than normal would be of limited effect given that the grain was strictly contained in the bag rather than floating around freely in the water.

[McMullan]

I suspect standard mash times of 60min mask the effect of liquor:grist ratio. The shorter the mash time the more important it becomes to optimise the reaction with a combination of temperature, pH and concentrations of enzymes and substrates (the rate of collisions between enzyme and substrate). The collision rate is going to be lower in thinner and thicker mashes, according to kinetic models of enzymic reactions. Optimised, we could probably get away with a 20min mash.

[Bibinimis]

I suspect standard mash times of 60min mask the effect of liquor:grist ratio. The shorter the mash time the more important it becomes to optimise the reaction with a combination of temperature, pH and concentrations of enzymes and substrates (the rate of collisions between enzyme and substrate). The collision rate is going to be lower in thinner and thicker mashes, according to kinetic models of enzymic reactions. Optimised, we could probably get away with a 20min mash.

I mashed for a little over an hour so hope to have got away with it this time but will make sure I change method next time to adjust the ratio.

[MashBag]

@McMullan. That is a good point and suspect you are right - when you get closer to the limits it becomes more important .

@Bibinimis. I have for years run a full 34 litre/4.5kg mash (no sparge) for 60 mins without issue... So either you will be OK, or I have been drinking shite for years

[Bibinimis]

@McMullan. That is a good point and suspect you are right - when you get closer to the limits it becomes more important .

@Bibinimis. I have for years run a full 34 litre/4.5kg mash (no sparge) for 60 mins without issue... So either you will be OK, or I have been drinking shite for years

Thanks and I very much hope the former!

[MashBag]

So do I... Let me know

[MashBag]

Another thought.....
Most modern beer machines pay little heed to it.
Perhaps pumping the wort through the grain bed is perhaps easier for the enzymes as against BIAB type mashing which tend to be static.

[Silver_Is_Money]

If your water has Alkalinity that needs to be addressed via acidifying and/or via weighing it against the acidity of the grist, and you mash in twice your normal volume of water, you are also mashing in twice the amount of Alkalinity that needs to be addressed.

[Bibinimis]

My understanding of this subject is abysmal but I have just established that the average ph level in my water supply is 7.39