Backup Pump?

[PeeBee]

Not another pump!

But I need something to backup the woefully pathetic pump in the Grainfather, and also if I get a "problem" with my 70L kit: Neither have a backup (like a tap even) should the pump fail to do its job (which happens to the Grainfather with boring regularity).

It will need to be self-priming, okay with foodstuff, and "multi-purpose" to offset the cost (I don't imagine something will be cheap). I came across the following, it has a few problems (covered later) but seems popular on the continent and for small commercial operations:

https://www.vigopresses.co.uk/Catalogue ... Pump-93260

It's a bit overpowered (25L a minute!) but maybe it can be moderated with a power regulator?

It has no "pass-through" which is to be expected of a self-priming pump and can be worked around.

It can't be used with liquid above 95°C (not a problem for a "backup" pump, but I've seen one seller say 35°C max?).

Is it really food-safe (the ad says "stainless steel", but the manufacturer only says "oxidation resistant alloy")?

It can't be used with acids (I suspect this means strong acid?) but that can be worked around.

Is anyone using one!?

[Jocky]

I tried a voltage controller on a pump and it slowed it down, but not as much as I wanted.

Any reason why you’re not looking at a March pump?

[PeeBee]

I tried a voltage controller on a pump and it slowed it down, but not as much as I wanted.

Any reason why you’re not looking at a March pump?

Got one! It's doing the transfers in the big (70L) kit.

But it doesn't help me out with the Grainfather woes, and it certainly wont help me out if the main pump for the 70L kit fails!

A March pump and it's like is not self-priming (nor should it be for it's normal use). Even if it was, it's plumbed in and can't be redeployed in other situations.


I might have to reconsider the power regulator. They do a hand-drill version of the pump, but I'd then need a variable speed drill.

[f00b4r]

Does it really have to be self priming? I might be showing ignorance here but wouldn't raising the GF slightly remove the need for that? On the Braumeister the pump is not self priming, the automatic programs cycle it on and off a few times to evacuate the air (or you do it manually - it is very quick and easy to see by air bubbles that it done if doing manually).
The BM pump is another candidate, although you might want to check out the white label supplier for a cheaper version.

[PeeBee]

Does it really have to be self priming? I might be showing ignorance here but wouldn't raising the GF slightly remove the need for that? On the Braumeister the pump is not self priming, the automatic programs cycle it on and off a few times to evacuate the air (or you do it manually - it is very quick and easy to see by air bubbles that it done if doing manually).
The BM pump is another candidate, although you might want to check out the white label supplier for a cheaper version.

For the GF it must self-prime because the stupid thing (GF) has no tap (even a syphon won't work 'cos I'm not lifting the thing full of hot liquid more than a millimetre or two). The main brewery is unlikely to create a problem, but if it did it being permanently plumbed in will create a tricky conundrum.

So that self-priming pump I listed caught my eye. Italian made, hardly mentioned over here in beer circles, used a lot for transfers in small wineries no doubt.

With self-priming (impeller has Viton seals) it might be useful for CIP too (high volume, potentially high pressure). They are not too expensive, but finding as many useful little jobs for it might justify having one.

I spoke to Vigo this morning, and I do know their description "stainless steel" is a fib, only the connectors are stainless steel whereas the pump body will be the "oxidation resistant alloy" (plated bronze?). But still not sure if I can slow it down from the rather dramatic 25L/min to something more manageable (5-10L/min?). They are used over here a lot for cider and fruit juice.

[MashBag]

https://www.vigopresses.co.uk/Catalogue ... Pump-93260

That is a beast of a pump. For 70l let alone a GF...or have I missed the point? I have one on those for my 300l transfers.

Power regs come in many types and so do motor windings - so the the opportunities (& frustration) is endless.

[PeeBee]

You've not missed the point! The magnitude of these pumps' effectiveness was certainly something I was missing. So, a "beast". That should sort out this Grainfather. Now I need a clue as to how I'm going to moderate it ... or find something else.

[MashBag]

no moderate - find a more appropriate pump

[PeeBee]

I did find a pump that may have been suitable, but it was a hell of a price. It was a souped-up diaphragm pump, but food-safe (apparently) and could withstand boiling water which was unusual. Us Brits seem to ignore diaphragm pumps, perhaps because they are very noisy and have unspectacular flow rates, but these could do 3 (US) gallons a minute, and could even be reduced in power (to 1 or 2 gallons as well as 3). Very "un-diaphragm-pump-like".

I use diaphragm pumps to transfer fermented beer to kegs. They sound like they are thrashing the beer, but are actually very gentle, unlike the spinning "open" impeller designs (like March-Mays, Chuggers, etc.). The pump I was looking at (randomly picked seller) was ... https://www.northernbrewer.com/products ... pre-filter.

But I thought I'd try the diaphragm pumps I've got to get an idea and ... hang on, the GF pump hadn't failed! The recirc. pipe, valve and dodgy bit with spring and ball-bearing was caked solid with hot break (not hops!). I had assumed it was hops in the pump like last time. Well I was wrong. Doesn't bode well for those guys on this forum fitting third-party screens to prevent hops clogging the pump? The "emergency pump" designing wasn't wasted though; It's contingency planning for another time.

Point proven: Those GF pumps are pathetic and quite unfit for purpose.

[MashBag]

You are not the first person to mention that. Is there an obvious upgrade?

[PeeBee]

You are not the first person to mention that. Is there an obvious upgrade?

An upgrade might have been "obvious" if I'd read a few more posts on the subject (one being take the spring and ball-bearing out of the coupler - though this does leave the risk of pumping jets of near boiling wort out of the GF ).

But; I'm just putting together the bits for my (far from obvious, twisted logic) solution. I'll write it up later. Also encompasses the option to use one of those high temperature diaphragm pumps for the GF, and my main brewery system, if my "solution" fails to reach expectation.

[PeeBee]

My (less than) obvious upgrade. First sort out a replacement for the hop filter. A few folk are installing a false bottom like here: False bottom for Grainfather. I'd recently upgraded my big brewery with stainless steel braided tube which I'd got as offcuts off eBay for cheap (the stuff ain't cheap normally, especially the two inch plus stuff I was using):

20211010_154637_WEB.jpg (70.48 KiB) Viewed 3102 times

These braided tubes are not great with hop pellets but sort out leaf hops just fine. If you want filters to deal with hop pellets I suggest you visit Mystic Meg's Emporium of Mythical Home-Brew Gear. Or you might chose to attempt a "whirlpool": I'd advise a big powerful whirlpool that you can throw yourself in having tried it a few times. If you are one of our American visitors, you might have no choice but to use pellets (whole hops not so available) but if you are in the UK I suggest sticking to mainly whole hops (you get away with some pellets, say 20-25%?).

This is half the job! I found (pretty damn quickly) you can filter out the whole hops but break protein and any pellet hops can still block the GF pump and recirculation pipe.

Step Two: Replace the restrictive recirc valve and associated restrictive disconnect. There is a risk with this action: If you disable the automatic safety shutoff valve you can switch on the pump while recirculation is disconnected and pump out a jet of very hot beer wort! Go carefully! I replaced the valve with a full bore unit (2-piece) and the disconnect with 1/2" cam adapter (they don't come smaller than 1/2"):

20211010_153908_WEB.jpg (82.58 KiB) Viewed 3102 times

With full-bore available all though the recirc loop I'll hopefully have seen the last of GF pump failures? (I haven't tried it yet, but I am now aware of the potential backup pumps and hop extracts which don't possess the capacity to bung up pumps or soak up valuable wort).

[PeeBee]

"Trial" run and no repeat of "pump failure":

20211027_153316_WEB.jpg (103.93 KiB) Viewed 3018 times

If I'd done a bit more Web browsing perhaps I would have come across this:
https://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/brewzil ... grade.html
Grainfather do their cam-locks the other way around to me but otherwise; seems I was on the right track? I did replace the restrictive open/close valve from the one-piece valve it came with to a "full-bore" (not restrictive) two-piece valve, which might still make a difference?

Near enough 100g leaf hops, even 10g pellet hops (taking risks!). Only 2/3 the pump blocking quantity of hops used on previous occasions, but promising?

It was cheaper to buy the bits, but buying the "official" version does get you a sparge arm (rather than the short length of 1/2" silicon tube I used). Now is the spare arm worth having rather than the full-bore valve?

[MashBag]

I use a hop spider at 800 micron with pellets (yes I to would prefer whole) which manages to retain 80% of 100g pellet addition and my BM pump does not struggle.

I think you are on the right path.... Now I appreciate the BM circulates in the opposite direction, but the ammount of tinkering required would lead me to think the GF pump or valves are the at fault. Not enough flow, a bad design, or underpowered perhaps. Indeed lately I have pumped all manner of shite through my BM after fermentation in kettle without failure.

Perhaps the price of the pumps is why this happens with a GF?

[PeeBee]

I'm saying nothing; in case I jinx the setup I've established. But I wont be using such "testing" quantities of hops again until the new year.

The 800 micron hop-spiders for pellets sounds a worthy ploy? I've only used 300 micron mesh and they retain the pellet sludge ... along with several litres of beer wort!