Abbot ale kit wanted

[Jim2]

Hi there
I would like to brew something that is as near as dam it to abot ale in the ready kits (not brewed from scratch). I want that same taste that you get from the pub so

1. Can anyone recommend me a pack to buy?
2. How much sugar should I use on secondary fermentation?
3. Would secondary fermentation into a say 2 litre bottle be the same as secondary fermentation into a barrel?
4. Once secondary fermentation is complete, how long will the beer last ( unopened) before it goes off?

Thanks

[MashBag]

1. Can anyone recommend me a pack to buy?
I cannot answer this, but others will be along shortly...

2. How much sugar should I use on secondary fermentation?
For the bottle ferment I like 1/2 tsp in 500ml. I sugar the bottles as it is easiest & most accurate with a Zevro.

3. Would secondary fermentation into a say 2 litre bottle be the same as secondary fermentation into a barrel?
Yes. The secondary is to add fizz.

4. Once secondary fermentation is complete, how long will the beer last ( unopened) before it goes off?
A good hopped beer, in a bottle years.
Same beer in a barrel - you need to drink it up . You have opened it (think just big bottle)
Hence why a lot of people prefer bottling (and its much much cheaper that a good draught setup)

[Cobnut]

Not aware of a kit which would make an Abbott clone, but there's guy in my HB Club who has been trying for years to make a good clone of Abbott (with some success). He shared an AG recipe from the 1970s. I have below tried to convert this to an extract recipe using either Liquid Malt Extract (LME) or Dried Malt Extract (DME), some speciality grains, fresh hops and dried yeast.

Before becoming an AG brewer, I made a number of beers using this method with a significant degree of success.

My strong preference is to use DME rather than LME as it is a much more stable product and produces beers which are better than those made with LME without the need to boil the extract. I have found using DME avoids the typical "homebrew" twang which LME based kits often have.

Extract Abbott(ish) clone
OG 1048
FG 1010 (predicted)
ABV 5%
IBU 38
EBC 22

Ingredients
2500g Light DME (or 3kg LME, if you insist!)
150g medium crystal (150 EBC)
10g black malt
400g cane sugar (e.g. golden granulated)
40g Fuggles hops (boil)
30g Goldings hops (boil)
12g Goldings hops (dry hop)
2 packs S-04 English Ale yeast

Method:
boil the grains, the sugar and the boil hops (40g Fuggles & 30g Goldings) in 5L water for 30 mins.
Add some cold water to your fermenter (say 10L) then strain the liquor from the boil into the fermenter.
Add the DME (I use a kitchen whisk to get this stirred in well as it can tend to clump).
Top up to 23L with more cold water (helps to get temperature about right too)
Check temperature and pitch the yeast when it's about 18-21C (I would normally re-hydrate the yeast following the instructions on the pack).
Ferment until you see a steady gravity reading of about 1010 and then rack into secondary and add the dry hops (12g Goldings).
Bottle after 3 days using 2g table sugar per litre (or 1/2 tsp per 500ml bottle).

If you make this, let us know how you get on, and importantly how it tastes.

Cheers!

[f00b4r]

Interesting that you boil the grain’s rather than steeping them. Is this to avoid boiling the hops in plain water (causing reduced isomerism)? Do you find any issues with tannin extraction leading to astringency in the final product?

[Cobnut]

You could steep them, but I found it worked well this way. TBF I've not done an extract brew like this for several years (began AG almost 6 years ago).

So an alternative might be to steep the grains in 5L of water at 65-70C before removing them, adding the sugar to the resultant liquor and boiling with the hops. Rest of recipe remains the same.

The aim is extract colour, flavour and some sugar from the speciality grains.

[Jim2]

2. How much sugar should I use on secondary fermentation?
For the bottle ferment I like 1/2 tsp in 500ml. I sugar the bottles as it is easiest & most accurate with a Zevro.

4. Once secondary fermentation is complete, how long will the beer last ( unopened) before it goes off?
A good hopped beer, in a bottle years.
Same beer in a barrel - you need to drink it up . You have opened it (think just big bottle)
Hence why a lot of people prefer bottling (and its much much cheaper that a good draught setup)

2. So for a 2 litre bottle then would you say 2 full tsp?
Zero???

4. Don't quite get what you are saying now
If beer has been bottled for secondary fermentation that it will last year's unopened, but if this is the case why not the same with a cask barrel of beer?

[Jim2]

Not aware of a kit which would make an Abbott clone, but there's guy in my HB Club who has been trying for years to make a good clone of Abbott (with some success). He shared an AG recipe from the 1970s. I have below tried to convert this to an extract recipe using either Liquid Malt Extract (LME) or Dried Malt Extract (DME), some speciality grains, fresh hops and dried yeast.

Before becoming an AG brewer, I made a number of beers using this method with a significant degree of success.

My strong preference is to use DME rather than LME as it is a much more stable product and produces beers which are better than those made with LME without the need to boil the extract. I have found using DME avoids the typical "homebrew" twang which LME based kits often have.

Extract Abbott(ish) clone
OG 1048
FG 1010 (predicted)
ABV 5%
IBU 38
EBC 22

Ingredients
2500g Light DME (or 3kg LME, if you insist!)
150g medium crystal (150 EBC)
10g black malt
400g cane sugar (e.g. golden granulated)
40g Fuggles hops (boil)
30g Goldings hops (boil)
12g Goldings hops (dry hop)
2 packs S-04 English Ale yeast

Method:
boil the grains, the sugar and the boil hops (40g Fuggles & 30g Goldings) in 5L water for 30 mins.
Add some cold water to your fermenter (say 10L) then strain the liquor from the boil into the fermenter.
Add the DME (I use a kitchen whisk to get this stirred in well as it can tend to clump).
Top up to 23L with more cold water (helps to get temperature about right too)
Check temperature and pitch the yeast when it's about 18-21C (I would normally re-hydrate the yeast following the instructions on the pack).
Ferment until you see a steady gravity reading of about 1010 and then rack into secondary and add the dry hops (12g Goldings).
Bottle after 3 days using 2g table sugar per litre (or 1/2 tsp per 500ml bottle).

If you make this, let us know how you get on, and importantly how it tastes.

Cheers!

Sorry but that is just to complex for me. I don't know why the manufactures of ready brew kits don't make cloun kits like Newcastle brown and Guinness

But 2g table suger/ 1 litre I get

[Marshbrewer]

I simplistic terms, it's because the process of condensing the wort down to a can of liquid malt extract under vacuum can't preserve all of the flavours of the wort.

So you need to try and add them back in.

[Jim2]

What are you saying JJ
That having said that you are never going to get the same quality out of a can

[Marshbrewer]

You can make some great beers from a LME kit, by modifying it as suggested above. Without modifications, there are limits. If you want to clone a beer such as Abbott Ale, you will need to tinker.

[Jim2]

LME vs ready to pour stuff out of a can
Same thing are they not, just you get to choose your recipe with LME rather then it all be made up for you

Surely the cheifs that mix and make the can stuff should be able to mix some great drinks better then the likes of myself

Had another look at weather spoones real ale list and there is a abbot reserve 6.5Abv, same amber, mild brown as original. I recon that one would be a better beer then the regular

Shame there is no way of sampling the ready made kits before you buy one and off you go with 40 pints

[MashBag]

2. So for a 2 litre bottle then would you say 2 full tsp?
Zero??

Yes indeed 2tsp accurately. Inadvertently adding to much can make your bottles burst.

"Zevro" make a sugar dispenser which is really really handy.

4. Don't quite get what you are saying now
If beer has been bottled for secondary fermentation that it will last year's unopened, but if this is the case why not the same with a cask barrel of beer?

Secondary fermentation is just bottling/kegging with some sugar and expecting it to ferment again to go fizzy (Carbonation)

They should both keep the same, until opened. As soon as you open it you need to drink it up, air is want turns beer.
A barrel needs to be drunk almost as fast as a bottle but you have a lot more to drink UNLESS you have the draught setup to look after the beer (in the barrel) once open.

Does that help?
Or put another way... you want to bottle it, certainly to start with leave the messing about with cellar equipment for another day, after you have a few brews under you belt.

[f00b4r]

LME vs ready to pour stuff out of a can
Same thing are they not, just you get to choose your recipe with LME rather then it all be made up for you

Surely the cheifs that mix and make the can stuff should be able to mix some great drinks better then the likes of myself

It’s a technology limitation, in the same way dehydrated food astronauts eat loses a little something when you pack a full Xmas dinner into a tube of paste.
Cobnut’s suggestion about just involves boiling some pre-crushed grain and hops in a large saucepan/stock pot for a short time before draining through a sieve. A lot of homebrew suppliers are happy to supply specific amounts of pre-crushed grain and hops so you don’t need to order any more than is exactly required.
If you can heat up soup it isn’t far off in terms of complexity but don’t be afraid to ask for a more simple breakdown of the steps if you need it, it’s easy for a more experienced brewer to just assume you know things about a process that you have never tried before and can make it seem collect or scary as a result.

[Jim2]

2. So for a 2 litre bottle then would you say 2 full tsp?
Zero??

Yes indeed 2tsp accurately. Inadvertently adding to much can make your bottles burst.

"Zevro" make a sugar dispenser which is really really handy.

4. Don't quite get what you are saying now
If beer has been bottled for secondary fermentation that it will last year's unopened, but if this is the case why not the same with a cask barrel of beer?

Secondary fermentation is just bottling/kegging with some sugar and expecting it to ferment again to go fizzy (Carbonation)

They should both keep the same, until opened. As soon as you open it you need to drink it up, air is want turns beer.
A barrel needs to be drunk almost as fast as a bottle but you have a lot more to drink UNLESS you have the draught setup to look after the beer (in the barrel) once open.

Does that help?
Or put another way... you want to bottle it, certainly to start with leave the messing about with cellar equipment for another day, after you have a few brews under you belt.

To try and clarify that 1/2 tsp is a tea spoon filled to the top of the metal and a full tsp is a heap tea spoon pilled up?

But just to clarify that the beer will not go off after secondary fermentation for a few year unless opened and exposed to oxygen.

[MashBag]

To try and clarify that 1/2 tsp is a tea spoon filled to the top of the metal and a full tsp is a heap tea spoon pilled up?

In the uk a teaspoon is a volume measure (like cups in the US) always a level fill unless otherwise stated. Accuracy is important hence my mentioning the zevro.

Example: https://amzn.eu/d/2JbrG06

Some folks will mix a quantity of sugar into the whole batch to be bottled. Easier.. Maybe, but that requires you to know exactly how many bottles you are going to fill.

For 2l bottles I would get some measuring spoons and add 2 level teaspoons per bottle before filling. Fill to the neck. If you can, have a few smaller bottles to hand too.. Half full will not work. I use caster sugar (cane) and invert the bottle a few times once sealed up. This mixes the sugar and tests the seal.

All the way through brewing you can taste your beer, do it and learn how it changes and what is normal. That and keeping notes of what you did will help you tremendously.

But just to clarify that the beer will not go off after secondary fermentation for a few year unless opened and exposed to oxygen.

Yup. I have found this to be the case with all grain bottled beer. I still have a few bottles which are criminally old, but were still OK (on last tasting)