Counterflow or Immersion chillers

[BlightyBrewer]

QUOTE (Horden Hillbilly @ Aug 9 2006, 06:38 PM) It's a cfc for me, for the simple reason that I liked the look of it! After cooling I always leave the wort for about 1 hour while I clean out my boiler and putting all the bits & bobs away, then drop the wort into another fv, aerating at this point. Regarding cold break, I always leave a small amount of wort behind in the cooled wort collecting vessel at this stage, leaving the cold break behind.

Regarding time probably about the same as the rest of you good folk, about 20-25 mins.
Is it a bit of a gamble leaving the wort to sit for an hour, risking contamination? I presume you cover it HH?

I must admit, I really like my CFC, but I can see the advantages of the IC. :rolleyes:

[Vossy1]

So DaaB, a cfc allows for no cold break at all, I'll re-phrase that, the cold break takes place in the copper tube so some coagulated proteins remain in the wort.

Are these proteins likely to settle out in primary and secondary fermentation?

If not is a chill haze more than likely?

I'm not sure I see the point in creating a semi cloudy beer, I can make a wit beer if I want that!

[Vossy1]

I assume using the IC that the coagulated proteins are mostly filtered out along with the hops via the hop strainer.

Has anyone who uses a cfc experienced chill haze?

Ps, I'm reading the chill haze in grain beers in conjunction with this topic.

[Horden Hillbilly]

QUOTE It's a cfc for me, for the simple reason that I liked the look of it! After cooling I always leave the wort for about 1 hour while I clean out my boiler and putting all the bits & bobs away, then drop the wort into another fv, aerating at this point. Regarding cold break, I always leave a small amount of wort behind in the cooled wort collecting vessel at this stage, leaving the cold break behind.

Regarding time probably about the same as the rest of you good folk, about 20-25 mins.

QUOTE Is it a bit of a gamble leaving the wort to sit for an hour, risking contamination? I presume you cover it HH?



Yes, I do cover it, silly of me not to mention it! I fit my lid on my fv while it is standing.

QUOTE Has anyone who uses a cfc experienced chill haze?

To be honest, no, but as I posted earlier I always leave a small amount of wort behind when I aerate & transfer to my fv, you can see the cold break left behind.

[jasonaustin]

The question of whether leaving the cold break in the fermenter after using a CFC is a long, often repeated one, with many different views. From my reading/research on the subject my understanding is this:-
1. CFCs may cause a better cold-break, which is good; but they leave the crud in the wort, which may be bad.
2. Cold break proteins may be beneficial for yeast, so leaving at least some in the fermenter is good.
3. Any proteins/crud may be detrimental to a beer's ability to clear, so should be removed as much and as soon as possible.

Notice I use the word 'may' a lot

Personally, I've used immersion chillers and left most of the crud in the boiler. I've used CFCs and fermented with the crud in the bottom of the fermenter (and I very rarely skim unless it's really mucky or the yeast is loosing buoyancy). Not noticed any difference whatsoever!

There's another thread talking about chill haze where I have suggested allowing the cold break crud to settle out and then racking to the fermenter, just in case the proteins re-dissove/re-suspend to cause the chill haze. This is not based on any experience, but simply 'something to try' - if it works, then great.

[Bigster]

Big bertha immersion chiller ( approx 18 metres of 8mm) does the job for me. When it was cooler she got 25l down to mid 20s in about 20 mins using 50 litres of water but in this warmer weather it has struggled a bit ( there again mains tap water could hardly be called cold) and has been a struggle to get below 30c with an increase in water up to 70 litres.

Also daab has a good point about the hop bed - one of my brews i stirred near the end of the boil and didnt leave long enough resulting in pesky hop pips blocking the filter. Now leave for a good 15 mins and dont stir

[Vossy1]

Cheers JA, the cfc's future was in the balance and still is to some extent.

Thanks DaaB.

It's an interesting subject this one.

My own preferences, as with my aseptic work are based on minimising risk, or risk control.

It's interesting to see JA has had no adverse effects, ie, chill haze using the cfc, but am I willing to risk it.

I suppose the haze has no effect on taste, so even if I experience it, its not the end of the world.

I am a bit of a beer tart though and appearances though not vital are important, though is this the way I've been conditioned by the media to think.

After all, if I were blind would I give a seconds thought to haze????

At least if I were I could have a guide terrier hey DaaB

[Vossy1]

What does the cold break look like, so I know what to look for?

[BlightyBrewer]

Brown sludge. If you look on Jim's Beer Kit page you will see an image of it.

[Vossy1]

Thanks guys

[Vossy1]

Well, here it is, finished at last, my cfc



And here's the spare one



Not quite finished yet. I liked the idea of the immersion chiller until all the oxidation, on the coppers surface, started to cover my hands.
I would not feel confident in this going into my brew. I would have to use citric acid or something (cillit bang ) to remove the oxidised layer before use.

Making these was ruddy horrible!

Ps, forgot to mention, initial tests of the cfc showed it cooled water from 95 deg c (straight from the kettle) to 17 deg c with very little flow of water in the outer hose.
In this I was very impressed

[Vossy1]

Now I've had a few bevvies and chilled a bit I feel able to explain my exploits over the last few days.

Making the cfc.

As you've probably seen in another of my tedious posts, I bought a hose from wilko's and 10m of 10mm copper micro bore. It quickly became obvious that the micro bore would barely fit through the hose never mind water flow. So of I went to find a new hose, homebase, Wyevale B+Q, Machine Mart blah blah...no joy.
On returning home I decided to use my hoselock hose in the garden. I threaded the copper tube through the hose, wound it up as per previous photo's only to find the hose wouldn't fit over the 15mm tee GRRRRRR
After various expletives and several days calming down I decided that I would return to the IC. I removed the microbore from the hose, wound it round my co2 cannister and then tried to make the u-bends to suspend the IC from the bucket.
Various expletives more lots of snapped pipe....b*****S to it.

Several days later, new role of micro bore 10mm, same hose, a lot more patience and the 15mm tee pierces the hose ....no calm down.
Cut some hose off, move the tee further down the pipe, go to Wickes for a new olive and hey presto a cfc B).

Jim said it would be fun....he wasn't wrong. Bad lads army.....stroll in the park

[Vossy1]

DaaB, only joking, re cillit bang spray.

I think if I want to keep the copper clean I'd use citric acid. It was the smell on my hands that I didn't like, and the thought of that transfering to my beer...well

Does the yeast metabalize the oxidised layer?

[deadlydes]

Vossy:
you may have mentioned this already but i cant see it but whats the ID and OD of the hose you have used for the outer of the chiller?

just want to compare with mine since you said you cooled from 95 to 17 with very little water flow

cheers
Des

[Andy]

Blimey vossy you've been through some pain haven't you!


and some £££££


But as you've found out, CFC's are very efficient! B)