Hefeweizen

[DRB]

I didn't now how much to put in so I just chucked a bit in,next time though i'll up it a bit as you suggested,should still be good though .

[Vossy1]

Just read through this entire topic and couldn't find an answer to a question I've got, so

I'm looking to brew phil's Hefe this week sometime. I am going to get some of the Brewferm Blanche yeast and I also have T-58 at my disposal.
Flavours, banana can be gotten at higher fermenting temps and clove at lower.
I assume I want more banana than clove for this style, or is this wrong ?

Also, I have certain control over which flavours I can get via fermenting at different temps. I have the ability to maintain fermantation at 20 deg c or leave the fv out at rt, probably up to 25 deg c, or combine both.

Is it possible to part ferment at a lower temp for half the fermentation time to get a certain flavour and then at a higher temp to get a different flavour ?

[Barley Water]

Ok Vossy, I'll take a swing at your question. I don't have any experience with the yeast you are using (I use either White labs or Wyeast) but let's say for arguments sake that it will be similar to WLP300 which give alot of bananna and clove.

A higher fermentation temperature will give the bananna and lower will give you the clove. What you are going for depends on personal preference, I don't believe there is any one right answer (I say, go for the Vossy blend). It is also rumored that if you start the mash with a rest at about 110F for about 20 minutes you will also get more clove (but I have not tried that). I would not ferment above about 70F or you may get some phenols which will be solvent-like. I also omit aeroating the wort or making a big yeast starter in an attempt to stress the yeast a little so as to get as much yeast character as possible (I know I will get flamed for that comment). The great thing about Heffe is that you can play with the yeast and production conditions and get different beers from the same wort, big fun. As an added bonus, you don't wait for the beer to clear and is in fact much better young, what's not to like?

[delboy]

Thats they way some of the german breweries do it vossy start it low and rise it to get the full profile of clove and banana.
Also if you want lots of clove its advisable to do an acid rest iirc which produces more of the precursors for the clove profile.
Personally i'd ferment on the high side to get the banana taste but then thats what i happen to like in a hefe weizen.

[Vossy1]

Thanks BW and DB

DB, by acid rest do you mean the same thing as BW. ie. hold the mash at 110F for 20 min then mash at usual temp

Stressing the yeast, that's something I'm familiar with BW, as I only recon my yeast before use, though I am moving to starters at the mo

I may turn this into a double brew day, which for me means 92ltrs.
I'll split it into 4 x 23 ltrs and then I can play with varying conditions

When you say ferment on the high side DB, what do you mean with regards a hefe

[Aleman]

Vossy,

The German Heffe brewers use the 'Rule of 30' in order to get a balanced Banana/Clove Profile. Its a little bit mathematical but I'm sure that most brewers can do this without resorting to a calculator

Simply put the pitching temp + the final temp (In C) should equal 30. So if you want to finish fermentation at 20C then you need to Pitch at 10C. I normally pitch at 12 and allow it to rise over a couple of days to 18C and then finish teh fermentation at 18C

[Vossy1]

TJB I'm going to run into problems then as I don't have a fermenting fridge

Perhaps I'll have to just make do with banana hefe

[Vossy1]

Hmmm, I've just been looking at a few sites that say a hefe should have some medicinal taste derived from the formation of phenols, which I assume are created by a high fermentation temp at some point

http://www.germanbeerguide.co.uk/hefeweiz.html

[Aleman]

The Clove IS from a phenol, and it does taste medicinal

[Vossy1]

Yep The clove is from phenol but to my palette there is a definate difference between a clove and a medicinal taste, but that's just me.

Just had a look at a BYO article that advises temp ranges of
68 - 72F for banana and 64 - 68 for clove.

Guess I'll have to play and see

[delboy]

Thanks BW and DB

DB, by acid rest do you mean the same thing as BW. ie. hold the mash at 110F for 20 min then mash at usual temp


When you say ferment on the high side DB, what do you mean with regards a hefe

Yeah i mean the temp that BW has stated in his reply (i must have been posting my reply at almost the same time as BW).

Im by no means an expert on hefes all i know is that i fermented my hefe with the wyeast 3068 yeast at about 17-18 C, i ended up with zero banana, which was disappointing because thats what i wanted, for that particular yeast i would be looking to ferment at 22-23C next time,

[Vossy1]

Cheers DB, strangely enough I had highlighted 3068 and 3333 for trials with this beer, so your info's spot on

[steve_flack]

I used WLP-380 in my last Hefe, used a 45C-65C mash schedule and fermented at 17C. I got plenty of clove but no banana. WLP-380 is supposed to be give much less banana than WLP-300/WY-3068 though. I thought this version tasted more authentic than the version I brewed with the Brewferm yeast which although nice was a bit one dimensional. I'll be trying WB-06 with my next Hefe and the same recipe/conditions.

[Vossy1]

Well I got a few yeasts to play with.

4 sachets of the Brewferm Wheat, 1 x Wyeast 3068 and 1 x 3056

Should give some varied results

[Vossy1]

Another question for the hefe guru's,

Hefe's are best drunk young but at what point in time are they past they're best...roughly?
I'm just wondering how much to brew v time to drink