Saflager S23

Share your experiences of using brewing yeast.
Russ

Saflager S23

Post by Russ » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:43 pm

Hi, sorry more lager yeast questions, tis my first attempt at lager- trying to satisfy those who like the fizzy stuff....... :roll:

Going to do a Coopers lager kit + 1kg of spray malt and replace the yeast with the above.

I will be fermenting in a fridge at 12oC

I have two packets of the S23

Do I pitch the yeast into the wort at below 25oC as normal and let the fridge pull the temp down, or do I get the temp down to 12oC then pitch?

Do I need to make a starter or just rehydrate (and if so 1 or 2 packets of yeast) ?

Bit worried if I pitch the yeast at 12oC its going to get a bit of a shock.........

:?

Chappie519

Post by Chappie519 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:06 pm

I pitched 1 pack of saflager and 1 pack of youngs into a 8 gallon batch at 13c and its working perfect. I made the youngs a starter with some DME and just sprinkled the SL on work and left 10 mins the stirred.

Hope its gonna taste ok tho. . .

Frothy

Post by Frothy » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:15 pm

Good idea regarding using 2 sachets, a high pitching rate is great for getting a quick fermentation and a crisp lager flavour. Good lagering is all about avoiding the build-up of waste metabolites that are created during a fermentation and subsequently have to be removed by the yeast during the lagering process. 12oc is ideal for this yeast, rack between 1.010 and 1.015 or within a few points of the brew completely finishing fermentation and I've read that the ideal lagering temperature is quite heigh for this yeast @ ~4-6oc. Typically 0-4oc is recommended for 4-16weeks. A great tip is to chill the brew to 12oc before you pitch the yeast, this will also help prevent the build up of metabolites and you won't have to lager for as long, try about 4 weeks.

I'd pitch the 2 sachets straight in but don't be surprised if is takes a couple of days for the krausen to build up, the brew will take a good 2 weeks to ferment out anyway. If you do make a starter yes it will need to be cooler, I've heard no more than 15oc recommended and made well in advance.

best of luck
Frothy

Chappie519

Post by Chappie519 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:20 pm

Frothy
rack between 1.010 and 1.015 or within a few points of the brew completely finishing fermentation and I've read that the ideal lagering temperature is quite heigh for this yeast @ ~4-6oc.
Can i go straight from fermenter to corni, and leave it for 8 weeks at a low temp then start drinking from the same corni? Or would i be better racking into a specified 2ndary fermenter?

What would you use as a secondary?

Chappie

Frothy

Post by Frothy » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:13 pm

Chappie, depends whether you can fit a corny into your lagering fridge. If so excellent as the pressure seal will be ideal for keeping out any contamination during this delicate stage and yes you'd be able to dispense from the same keg. I use another fermenting bucket as it's the only thing that fits and simply rack the brew into it for lagering. I just posted this elsewhere which pretty much covers it, I think conditioning is so important and yet completely underated. With regards to lagering the difference in flavour is well worth the wait & effort.
Don't rack mid-fermentation. You will lose activity and character in the beer if you do rack whilst a healthy fermentation has built up. The use of a secondary is hotly debated particularly on the US forums where they seem to love their 2ndary fermenter. If you consider real ale as a prime examle of how to brew and condition beer, the ale is fermented out to within a few degrees of it's final gravity in 3-4days, kegged with finings and shipped off to the ale houses. At the pub the keg is stored in the cellar for a period of weeks whilst it matures & conditions. In this way the keg is both a secondary fermenter (better describes as conditioning) and dispense vessel. Leaving the yeast in is essential to the conditioning of the beer as it recoups many of the compounds it expelled into the brew whilst it was rapidly fighting with itself metabolising all of the sugar it could get hold of.

My spin on this with corny kegs is to leave the ale in the primary to ferment dry and fall clear, this takes 5-10 days. Then rack to a corny and allow the beer to condition for a few weeks pressurized at no more than 15psi (at higher pressures the yeast becomes inhibited.) Since using a high flocculation yeast Safale S-04 I've had no sediment problems in the keg or had to use finings at all but if you do get sediment in there it just comes out with the first 1/2pint of beer.)

Essentially it is essential to condition/ mature your beer but the dedicated 2ndary fermenter (instead of using a keg) is only a benefit if it helps prevent you from drinking the beer early Smile or if you have a particularly cloudy and irksome yeast. You don't need to syphon across any yeast, there will be plenty of cells and enzymes in the beer that you can't necessarily see.

phew.... sorry one of my pet subjects.
Frothy

Russ

Post by Russ » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:25 am

Thanks Frothy thats great information for the newbie lager maker :D

Think I'll get the wort down to temp and pitch both packs of rehydrated S23

It's going in a Cornie and they fit my fridge so the answer to Chappie's question is also very helpful

Should re name this post the definative Lager guide 8)

Cheers

Chris The Fish

Post by Chris The Fish » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:17 am

this may also be of some assistance..

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/pdf/SaflagerS-23.pdf

fementis have a fact sheet like this for all their yeasts.

CtF

Russ

Post by Russ » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:15 am

Thanks

Thats a lot of info!

Hope my lager drinkers appreciate all this reading :wink:

Frothy

Post by Frothy » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:11 pm

Cheers Russ, I've spent a lot of time trying to learn about lagering and although it's quite common in Australia and America in Britain the practice among home-brewers is really quite rare. Still, no excuses now that we've got access to cheap temperature controllers & fridges on the internet :)

Frothy

chopperswookie

Post by chopperswookie » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:09 pm

just fell upon this topic and being a lager drinker and brewer its been excellent. cheers frothy

Chappie519

Post by Chappie519 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:54 am

So \Frothy, your saying its alright to secondary ferment in a corny? So you dont need a container that has an airlock then?

Cheers

Frothy

Post by Frothy » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:06 pm

Chappie. As long as the pressure in the keg doesn't exceed 15psi you'l be fine. The brew should have finished actively fermenting or be finished to within a few points (i.e. 1.010-1.015) by the time you transfer it to the keg/secondary. Best advice is not to rush.

cheers
Frothy

Chappie519

Post by Chappie519 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:49 pm

Think this is definatly the way i will go with my lager this time Frothy! Can i ask how you maintain pressure of 15psi? I curently only have a small bulb-injector for my CO2 as i have nitro mix in pub cylinder and dont really want the extra expenditure of another cylinder rental. Would 1 bulb bring it up to near 15psi? Its an inovations with 16gm CO2 bulbs.

Cheers

Frothy

Post by Frothy » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:53 pm

As long as there's enough pressure for the lid to seal then the lager will be just fine. This is easier on some kegs than others using the Ultraflate but it shouldn't take much of a bulb to achieve. It would be a good idea to purge the air from the keg once its sealed in order to flush out any potential contaminants, just let a few squirts out of the release valve and top the keg up with CO2 again.

Frothy

Russ

Post by Russ » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:25 am

Hi

I've have lager liftoff 8)

Pitched as you suggested Frothy on Sat night, Sunday the yeast appeared to have it's day of rest :shock:

This morning I have a happy krausen and blowoff tube bubbling steadily(couldn't fit an air lock as it made the FV to tall for the fridge)

Result!

Cheers

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